The next generation could not care less about our hobby.

[DrWho]

Mark, I think you're focusing on the turnover too much....

The value added to the consumer in the cases you're citing has more to do with factors other than quality. Most of it just comes down to convenience - both in the home and pro audio arenas.

For example, pro audio amplifiers have arguably gone a slight step back in quality - but they're nearly 1/10 the weight, which is a big deal when transporting equipment. It saves on transportation and setup costs to make the amplifiers smaller and easier to carry. Line arrays are atrocious but they're a fast way to get a ton of SPL for a live concert....everything comes down to making the sound crew's job easier. Of course there will always be the marketing touch of quality here and there, but the reality is that the sound quality is good enough for the masses. That wasn't the case in the 30's or however far back you want to go.

Btw, CPU's have hit a brick wall and Moore's law hasn't been true for years now. Sure, some performance improvements have been found in parallel processing, but not all computing processes can benefit from parallelization.... What we're going to start seeing is more efficient code again - unfortunately more from the library / compiler perspective since that is "more manageable" apparently...

[Islander]

I think the issue may be technical as much as generational. Sure, lots of young people are happy to listen to MP3s through earbuds, but people of all ages can wind up spending all their spare time in front of the computer, especially if they're active on Facebook or the like.

Sitting and listening to music as a foreground activity, monotasking, makes some people uncomfortable these days, like they're playing hooky from being "productive" by not checking their messages and updates every few minutes. I've got music on all day, most days, but I don't spend as much time as I used to just listening.

The computer is interactive, while the sound system is not, so it can take an effort to decide to just sit and listen to music. Even when I do sit to listen, I often turn on the TV and pull up YouTube music videos or pop in a music DVD, as if the sound alone was no longer enough.

Does anyone else feel like this?

[garyrc]

... Sitting and listening to music as a foreground activity, monotasking, makes some people uncomfortable these days, like they're playing hooky from being "productive" by not checking their messages and updates every few minutes ...

The computer is interactive, while the sound system is not, so it can take an effort to decide to just sit and listen to music. Even when I do sit to listen, I often turn on the TV and pull up YouTube music videos or pop in a music DVD, as if the sound alone was no longer enough.

The sound system can be interactive -- in a sense -- if you dance to it, or stand on a low stool and conduct ...

As to monotasking, when I'm on the phone and the person on the other end repeatedly gets the information wrong I often gently ask them to stop multitasking, if that's what they are doing.

[Quiet_Hollow]

Does anyone else feel like this?

Not particularly. By which I mean on any given night for the last few years, so long as I'm around the house, my stereo (hence listening to all things audio on it) has proven a most insidious distraction.

I've often found I'd rather listen to a few interesting tunes on the big system than say:

-change the oil in the GF's car

-load the dishwasher

-take out the trash

-pay the bills

-call someone

-get ready for work

-sleep

[ChuckAb3]

There's some hope. Whenever we have the kids and their friends over, I usually notice at least one of them paying attention to the uncompressed, full range sound. Seeds can be planted, perhaps!

[Chris A]

...Sitting and listening to music as a foreground activity, monotasking, makes some people uncomfortable these days, like they're playing hooky from being "productive" by not checking their messages and updates every few minutes. I've got music on all day, most days, but I don't spend as much time as I used to just listening...I often turn on the TV and pull up YouTube music videos or pop in a music DVD, as if the sound alone was no longer enough.

Does anyone else feel like this?

Yea, me too, and I feel that this is a "non-critical listening mode".

I spend a high percentage of my days now in front of the system playing music while typing into my laptop (research writing or checking forums/emails), or watching something on video disc/Netflix/Amazon Prime streaming for entertainment later in the day after the creative juices are expended. Adding the visual modes of sensing tends to pull my attention away from the listening experience, however. But listening during doing research writing really enhances my enjoyment of that particular activity.

Chris

[kaiser SET say]

Like old Jim Valv, never give up, never give up is my approach to getting/keeping my sons interested in better sound!! I have put an OK system in their bedroom (Vandersteen 2C's/NAD AVR 1045/Nak 200 Carousel and AQ RCA to mini for DAPS), buy them better phones each year and as they seem to take better care of them and realize better from just good and most importantly let them play/hear their favorite jams on all the rigs in the house and car. Been amazed at how much of my stuff they like and how much of theirs I can actually stand

Here's a older shot of there system when it had an old 1979 HK 670Twin on it but now changed out to the NAD since it was better for their future HT setup and the fact I gave the HK and a pair of AR bookshelf's to their music teacher who's house just burned down and everything with it. He's an awesome teacher and I sure in good conscince not have the music teacher without a way to hear music!

[Ceptorman]

There's some hope. Whenever we have the kids and their friends over, I usually notice at least one of them paying attention to the uncompressed, full range sound. Seeds can be planted, perhaps!

Good job, that's what I do too. When the kids want to watch a movie with their friends, I let them use the HT, sometimes someone will comment on good it sounds.

[Schu]

if they all just realized that Radiohead sounds FANTASTIC thru Klipsch Cornwalls (and they do), we'd have some coverts.

Trying to convert youngsters with Radiohead?

Younger than me...

[muel]

I keep thinking about when I was young... not even driving yet... got my older brother to take me to the local Hi Fi shop. Pretty much everything was unaffordable considering my paper route wages. Saw lots of Polk, JBL, Boston Acoustics, Nakamichi, Yamaha, (Later years I remember Denon, NAD and finally Klipsch)... I'm sure there was more that I just don't recall. They did have a small area where they had these new portable stereos that were much larger than usual. "Boom box" or "Ghetto blaster" were terms that were soon to be born. THIS I could afford so I picked up a nice Hitachi.

Over the years I returned many times just to oooh and ahhh over the new equipment. Full of questions, my friends and I would quiz the salesmen and they would show amazing patience as they would take the time to talk and teach. I would save my money, buy a component, save more money, buy another component... gradually building a system as I could afford and according to an informal plan that I worked out with suggestions from the staff. Little did I know that there would be no more Hi Fi stores in my area within 10 years of that first purchase.

Where does ANYBODY much less the young get the kind of help that used to be available? I think that the internet and this forum can go a long way to that end but I do miss going to visit with Bob and Mike at the local Stereo Buff and to see the latest equipment they were excited about.

Here are some interesting comments from Jim Smith about the death of Hi Fi conversation: http://thehighfidelityreport.com/death-of-a-salesman-audio-style/

[Thaddeus Smith]

Good point. Hi Fi shops are nearly non-existent and the ones that do exist cater to the high end. Magnolia-esque sections of chain stores are a joke and rarely staffed by people who know more about audio than ordinary shoppers. Places like the original Radio Shack don't exist. Record/music stores are nearly extinct.

Those were all places which helped to foster the culture and introduce youngsters to music and give them a place to both learn and day dream. Now it's a hobby of isolation and self-directed learning. Going to audio expo's full of 30-60 yr olds is not enticing for teens.

[Max2]

Good point. Hi Fi shops are nearly non-existent and the ones that do exist cater to the high end. Magnolia-esque sections of chain stores are a joke and rarely staffed by people who know more about audio than ordinary shoppers. Places like the original Radio Shack don't exist. Record/music stores are nearly extinct.

Those were all places which helped to foster the culture and introduce youngsters to music and give them a place to both learn and day dream. Now it's a hobby of isolation and self-directed learning. Going to audio expo's full of 30-60 yr olds is not enticing for teens.

I totally agree. Sadly, I know no one that listens to anything other than digital media. None of any of my friends or their 20 something kids know what Klipsch makes or who they are. Many fewer kids are into music these days, its all video games and the "hey look at me" Face Book and Social Media crap. The dying of true radio and DJ's were the beginning of this having been replaced my limited loops of play sets and pre recorded commentary. I really miss radio personalities, call in requests and special radio programs where certain "types" of music were showcased to take you back 20 or so years in your youth. The true appreciation of high quality audio is already dead among the generations to come, its just fact. Sure, there are a few youngsters out there into it, but Im sure we can all agree the percentage changes are staggering. As far as more speakers being sold, well they're all the multi channel box set best buy junk. We are in a disposable oriented country of consumers where just good enough is ok. We all have accustomed ourselves to EVERYTHING having a limited life of service. If it breaks, you don't fix it, you toss it and buy another.

[Chris A]

It seems to me that one issue is why the Magnolia Audio or Fry's audio room concepts aren't working any better than they are presently. Bose and other less "audiophile" brands seem to have crowded out the good stuff.

[Max2]

It seems to me that one issue is why the Magnolia Audio or Fry's audio room concepts aren't working any better than they are presently. Bose and other less "audiophile" brands seem to have crowded out the good stuff.

Another reason is that the retail shops get "shopped" without a purchase. We do our research and then we go and rub the paint on something only to go back home, order it online and save 20+% No one can keep a business alive when the majority is doing this. But at the same time, many business's have this coming. There is nothing more aggravating than to go and shop for a Receiver, speakers, Car or anything else for that matter and the salesman give you false info and you quickly find out you know more about the product than he or she does.

[Chris A]

Perhaps the objective should be providing showrooms for listening and influencing, and less for retail sales in-store. What this means is that the audio manufacturers might should provide demo equipment, on-line training for sales associates, and incentive to the stores in the form of brand support - as part of their marketing budgeting in lieu of some staff traveling to major audio shows. The carrot for these audio manufacturers is to influence typical "Bose buyers" to buy something better: there are probably market segments that these audio manufacturers haven't presently developed.

Starbucks (which now sells CDs), large furniture stores like Rooms-to-Go and Ikea, and other related shops also have space for small audio showrooms or better-than-ceiling-speaker installation space. The carrot for these stores might be to generate additional foot traffic or sales for their prime product or service lineups. Sit-down pizza restaurants and live music bars also are potential showroom spaces: live bands could plug-in instead of lugging their own amplifiers and speakers around. A monitor playing muted sales commercials for the audio equipment could play during audio performances.

Bose owns too many of these installations nowadays. And Best Buy is apparently losing market share because they don't provide knowledgeable staff, IMHO.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Chris A

[dtel]

I think Walkman's and ghetto blisters, or boom boxes, were the beginning of the demise of HiFi audio.

Not really, most of those put music where it was not before, any way you can get people to listen to music is good, they will hear the difference with better quality when chances pop up and a few might seek it.

Disclaimer... "Being old".......much of the young people's music today is only worth listening to with clock radio with an off button, do you really want to hear it with high quality ?

[mattSER]

I'm only 30, but I don't think I'm being delusional when I disagree with that.

There is plenty of fantastic-sounding modern music. Check out Daft Punk's new album.

[DizRotus]

Admit it, we are, and always have been, a minority. Only a small percentage of people is willing to put up with the large plywood enclosures needed to faithfully reproduce the lowest notes, not to mention the expense. Compound that with the advances in quality audio for the masses. It's heresy, but Bose music machines and some HT in a box setups provide very good sound at a fraction of the cost in terms of dollars and physical space. Add in the need for portability and most young people are not concerned about high fidelity, except through buds.

My 24 y.o. son was headed to a 4th of July pool party. I offered my iPod dock on steroids (see below) as a music source. He politely declined.

With built-in Bluetooth, chip amp and rechargeable 12 volt battery, it seems to be the perfect complement to a smart phone. Every person at the party could could play their music through the boombox. Had someone offered such a device to me at his age, I would have been thrilled.

But, there is hope. He goes through ear buds like I go through pretzels. To show him quality over quantity, I gave him a pair of Klipsch S4 phones. He's managed to not destroy them for more than a year. He admits they sound better than cheap buds. The cliched comments about hearing things in the music he'd never heard before are forthcoming. He saves them to listen to music. The cheap phones are used for podcasts.

He assisted me recently when servicing the La Scalas I refurbished for his old high school. He has heard music well reproduced at high volumes, yet he still prefers buds.

The YouTube video below hints at a darker side to the constant connection of the current generation.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/JHixeIr_6BM?rel=0&autoplay=1&iv_load_policy=3

I agree with Craig of NOSValves. Good music from a clock radio is better than bad music from a SOTA system. Nonetheless, an excellent recording of excellent music played through a SOTA system is the best.

Edited July 18, 2014 by DizRotus

[Max2]

I'm only 30, but I don't think I'm being delusional when I disagree with that.

There is plenty of fantastic-sounding modern music. Check out Daft Punk's new album.

Uhh, yeah, although I do like to some of DP's material they are really just a couple of keyboard jockeys that collaborate with other singers and musicians that they have to bring in on the majority of their content. Who plays the drums, guitar and bass? Ahhh, again the majority of the time its a keyboard! Unplug the keyboards, hand them both an acoustic guitar and a mic and lets see what they can do on stage.

[MAZ]

I know a lot of people who are feeling too stressed with all the gadgets they use and are told they need to survive in today's world. They want to cut back. Really, so many gadgets are solutions that are looking for a problem.

Ahh yes, 'The Paradox Of Chioce'

A hyper-accelerated consumer culture has people (mainly 30-40 yr olds) buying things or subscribing to services (electronic gadgets, kitchen tools, phone apps and etc) and then trying to figure how to integrate them into their lives. This 'gadgetization' has an infantilizing effect on many grown adults. It's quite funny/sad.

If you've ever purchased a 'melon spoon', I'm talking about you.

Back on topic:

'Kids' these days only know electroincs that you replace every 2-5 years.

Making a long term investment into a piece of audio gear that could last a lifetime is silly nonsense to someone who replaces their phone and game console every 2 years (or less).

Edited July 18, 2014 by MAZ