First Experience with Audyssey Calibration (not quite what I expected)

[wvu80]

Edited out.  I had a suggestion for positioning the mic, but I saw in subsequent post with a pic, all is well. 

Edited January 31, 2015 by wvu80

[Max2]

THX it was. See attached photo

 

 

I think the mic may be too close to the wall behind you.  Reverb and Echo will be pretty strong from walls, hard surfaces and even ears too close to a leather couch or chair. Smooth Leather seems to redirect sound heavily.  Don't listen to me though, Im batting zero with Audyssey and have never been able to get it to improve any music material in my room. 

[garyrc]

Earlier this week, I purchased a few toys, including 3 Onkyo Receivers.  Since my Sherbourn amp has 4 channels that are not working, I unhooked the HK and replaced it with the Onkyo TX-NR1008.  This is my first receiver that has Audyssey so I was curious how it compared the room correction for HK and my previous Yamaha. 

 

When Audyssey began, the first thing it asked me to do was to adjust my subs to 75db.  The meter on the screen was showing 96db so I began turning the volume knob on both subs until I reached 75db.  I calibrated for 6 locations which was cool because my HK and my previous Yamaha only calibrates for one location. 

 

After the calibration finished, I changed the xover settings for the fronts from 40Hz -50Hz to 80Hz.  That's funny because the La Scalas only get down to around 70Hz.  Without any additional tweaking, I put in a bluray and noticed there was no bass and I really didn't hear the surrounds at all.  So I check the settings and everything was on.  When looking at the levels, the La Scalas were bottomed out at -12db (could technically be lower than -12), surrounds were around -6db.  So I pull out my SPL Meter to see how Audyssey did with the levels.  The front three matched at 80db, all 4 surrounds were around 74db and the sub was terribly low.  I'm really surprised to see that it was off by that much.  This seems like Deja Vu with EmoQ from the Emotiva UMC-1. 

 

Will have to wait until tomorrow to switch over to the HK to do a direct A/B comparison using the internal amps of the HK and Onkyo. 

 

I also want to hook up the three working channels of the Sherbourn to the La Scalas to see if the overall sound improves by adding the amp to the equation.

 

The -12 dB result is (naturally) because the La Scalas are so efficient.  As you point out, Audyssey might have set the La Scalas even lower if it could, therefore there is a great discrepancy between the front three and the others.  People usually use attenuators temporarily between the preamp and power amp and the likes of La Scala or Khorn.  For instance, with my Khorns and Belle center I used 12 dB attenuators on all channels during the Audyssey calibration, then removed them and reassigned Reference level from 0 to -12 on the Main Volume Control ... this is what Chris K., head of Audyssey suggested. ... everything is at the correct level now.   I love what Audyssey did, except I turned the sub up a few dB out of preference.

 

The non-Audyssey internal test noise in an AVR or pre/pro bypass the Audyssey filters, so cannot be used for SPL meter tests.  Tones or band limited pink noise (usually 500 to about 2K, then a band in the bass) on a test CD/DVD/BR are O.K., because they go through the whole kit and kaboodle, including whatever EQ Audyssey decided on.

 

It's usually a good idea to use all 8 mic positions, making sure the first one is dead center (i.e. in your main listening position).

 

I think the Audyssey FAQ by K. Barnes at AVS may be a better way to go than the set-up guide at AVS.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Garyrc

[Youthman]

You are measuring too far apart... I would say no more than 2' max for the furthest measurement from the MLP (in all directions).

Yeah...I didn't read the manual on how to "properly" use Audyssey.  I assumed you were supposed to place it in the seats that you wanted to optimize for.  I was wrong. 

 

i see nothing EDIT: now i see dead people

The photo was upright on my iPhone, when I uploaded it, it was sideways.  You probably were looking at it while I was fixing the image.

 

I think the mic may be too close to the wall behind you.

Could be.  With the position chart, I will re-run it and it will not be near the back wall.

 

Don't listen to me though, Im batting zero with Audyssey and have never been able to get it to improve any music material in my room.

That's encouraging. 

 

The -12 dB result is (naturally) because the La Scalas are so efficient.

Yeah, I figured that.  I know I've read about guys having to use "attenuators" to help adjust for the sensitivity?

 

I think the Audyssey FAQ by K. Barnes at AVS may be a better way to go than the set-up guide at AVS.

Do you happen to have a link for that?

[Paducah Home Theater]

Don't listen to me though, Im batting zero with Audyssey and have never been able to get it to improve any music material in my room.

I was ready to throw an RC-64ii in the trash due to male voices sounding like they were talking through a shoe box. But, it was Audessey. Turn it off and it sounds friggin great.

[garyrc]

Do you happen to have a link for that?

 

Don't have a link, but on the AVS forum, "Official Audyssey thread" (or very similar title) there are two:  Audyssey 101 is at post # 51778, and Audyssey FAQ at post 51779.  These posts are very long, but very good. 

[NBPK402]

 

 

I think the Audyssey FAQ by K. Barnes at AVS may be a better way to go than the set-up guide at AVS.

Do you happen to have a link for that?

 

I believe the link i gave you is the link referred to... http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-191.html#post14456895 Post 5701.

Edited January 31, 2015 by ellisr63

[NBPK402]

Here ya go... Posted the page for you as it takes time to find in the huge thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-1726.html#post21782993

 

 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-1726.html#post21783025

[garyrc]

Here ya go... Posted the page for you as it takes time to find in the huge thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-1726.html#post21782993

 

 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-1726.html#post21783025

 

Youthman:  The links ellisr63 posted for you (copied above) are the correct ones.  There is a misleading one (or two) elsewhere on AVS.  Just about anything with the name KBarnes701 attached will be correct, although he may not cover the temporary use of attenuators for highly efficent speakers (to let Audyssey get the relative levels right).  For that, see my post # 23 in this Klipsch forum thread. 

 

Which Audyssey do you have, XT, XT32, or some other one?

Edited February 1, 2015 by Garyrc

[derrickdj1]

One thing with autocalibration and multiple subs, set the subs to 71 or 72 db with an spl meter if using two subs before autocalibration.  I have 4 subs and set each sub to 68 db.  Even with that, the combined spl is over 75 db and I end up with a sub trim of - 6.5 db.

 

Auto calibration with a -12 db mean you need to attenuate the mains to get things to work right.  Remember most of the time the subs will appear silent and only make themselves know with LFE.  I have many people ask me are the subs on with basic non-action movies and music.  Good luck with the autocalibration.

[Quiet_Hollow]

Michael,

 

Just because you set your "crossover" to 80 Hz does not mean that is where your system crosses over at the listening position, nor does [using Audyssey] ensure that the resultant frequency response of the subwoofer is flat.

 

In addition, you keep mentioning that your La Scala simply roll of at 70 Hz.  In 1/2 space they roll off even higher than that. In 1/8 space, they're good down to ~50 or so. But that's all moot, because that's assuming an equal-power signal.

 

Hook up a multimeter to the back of the La Scala, and play an AC sine wave signal somewhere in the 30-40 Hz region at 8-10V. 

 

That being said, for 5.1 you want your La Scala crossing over at 90 Hz, which usually equates to setting your receiver to 100-125 Hz and setting your subwoofer, much, much lower than convention wisdom dictates. Typically ~40 Hz. 

[Frzninvt]

I never let an electronic ear (omnidirectional mic) adjust my system I do it with a disc, sound level meter and my ears.  The built in caibration systems will try to adjust to a flat response and flat does not sound good to me.  You are allowing an general alogorythm to make all you adjustments.  Whhaatttttt!  I competed in IASCA sound quality car audio for years and had to have special settings when they RTA'd my car with the Audio Control 3055 RTA to achieve a flat response across the frequency spectrum for the most points.  That said the RTA setting sounded terrible for everyday listening purposes.  YMMV

[JJkizak]

It took me a while to figure out that in my Denon X-4000 you have to set the Audessy function and Dolby for each input, II.E. DVD, Bluray, CD, Phono, FM-HD, etc. while most of the other functions in the menu are the same for each input.

This happens a lot when you are over 50.

JJK

[garyrc]

Here ya go... Posted the page for you as it takes time to find in the huge thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-1726.html#post21782993

 

 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-1726.html#post21783025

 

Youthman,  I just looked at the above links again, and they are truly excelent.  I really hope you're using them.  They read well, and, as I said, provide updated, corrected informtion, covering everything you need to know except the temporary use of attenuators when calibrating a system with speakers as efficient as the La Scalas (for which see my earlier post).

 

In contrast, my pre/pro manual contains some real misinformation, and is written in a dead stick's prose.  It is the worst I've ever seen.

[ssh]

You should read some of the"research papers" that were turned-in to me Friday.

SSH

[willland]

These two things are IMO the biggest misconceptions many that use Audyssey have gotten wrong, me included.

 

 

 

e)2. Is it OK to change the distance settings Audyssey sets?

What Audyssey describes as 'distance' is really 'delay'. The idea is that the sound from each speaker arrives at the Main Listening Position at exactly the same time. This helps your system produce a 'precise' sound with excellent imaging and clarity. If the sounds all arrive at different times, the result is a 'smeared' sound, lacking clarity and giving poor imaging across your soundstage. Audyssey sets these different delays by calculating the time it takes the sound to travel from the speaker to the Main Listening Position (at the speed of sound of course) and setting an appropriate distance. For this reason, it is not advisable to change the distance settings unless you really know what you are doing.

If this answer helped you, please click here to take you to the bottom of the post where you can leave a 'like'. It's the only way we can evaluate how useful the FAQ is, so a few seconds of your time would be greatly appreciated - thanks!

See Also:

• Why has Audyssey set my sub distance much greater than it actually measures?
• Audyssey has set my satellite speaker distances incorrectly - should I just change them?

Go back to top.
Go directly to the FAQ Questions & Answers.
Go back to 'Levels, Distance & Trim Settings' Section Header.]

e)3. Why is it a bad idea to use your AVR test tones and a SPL meter to check trim levels?

Many newcomers to Audyssey seem to like to 'double check' their final channel trims by using a SPL meter and the AVR's internal test tones to see if each channel measures the same, or measures the expected 75dB. If the channel trims do not measure the same or differ from 75dB, these users will often change the AVR trims to match the readings given by their SPL meter. This is not a good idea and the following answer explains why.

Since the AVR's internal test tones are not (and cannot be) processed by Audyssey, when you measure the AVR's test tone levels, you're measuring what your room is doing to unprocessed audio. Audyssey is designed to correct those inequalities for you. It is therefore possible that if Audyssey has had to perform a lot of correction on one or more speakers, relative to the others, then the SPL readings of unprocessed tones will be different to the reading that Audyssey has made, post-correction. It is also possible therefore that the SPL readings will vary from speaker to speaker for the same reason. 

Edited February 8, 2015 by willland

[Youthman]

Well fellas....I have sold my Sherbourn 200 x 7 amp and am going to rerun Audyssey since the other day, I noticed my trims were still at -12db for the mains due to the high efficiency of the La Scalas.  Since I do not have an amp, I'm assuming there isn't much I can do in the area of using attenuators.  I'm going to try and play with the gain on the subs to prior to running audyssey to see if that will help the La Scalas from bottoming out at -12db.

[Scrappydue]

same boat as me. only thing you can do is note how hot they are relative to being at 75 db, and then level match everything else to them to get them even. then if say you calibrate at 78 db then your new reference will actually be when the volume is at -3. -10 would actually be -13 for you since you are calibrated 3 over. hope that makes sense

[derrickdj1]

It would be nice if there was some type of voltage attenuators or the use of headphones amps which will have a lower signal.  I am just throwing things out there and have no ideal if they provide a work around or are worth the cost.  I live Steven's ideal.  An spl reading would tell you how much over reference the speakers are set to in the system.

 

This thread should be interesting to read what others suggest.

Edited July 8, 2015 by derrickdj1

[Quiet_Hollow]

I'll have a nice long post explaining all this later tonight. It's not a bad as it seems.