"Is Tom Brady a Cheater?" "I don't believe so..........."

[babadono]

It's not a lie if you believe it's true -----George Costanza.

[JJkizak]

If Brady was on the up and up the first play that he handled the ball he would have reported it to the ref. But he didn't until a lowly linebacker

on the other team said something. That makes him in fact totally guilty. Then one would surmise that how many games prior to the game in question

were rigged?

JJK

Edited May 12, 2015 by JJKIZAK

[Bonzo]

At least Richard Nixon was more convincing when he said, "I'm not a crook!"  People in high profile positions need to learn to keep their mouth shut when being interviewed on controversial and especially legal matters. Their organizations need to do better training, for lack of a better term, on how to handle the media and the public better. I am strictly speaking from a company point of view as I was a PIO, Public Information Officer, on several major incidences in my former profession. Usually, less is more. State the companies official position, answer a few questions, reinforce the companies position then, SHUT UP! You don't want to start a back and fourth banter war with savvy media reporters. In this day of hit and run media, something else will come along and divert their attention away from you. However, if you keep responding and answering their questions and bringing new and controversial conversation to the front, it can and will snow ball and turn into "Deflategate!"

Edited May 12, 2015 by Bonzo

[billybob]

Didn't Nixon write a coursebook on that?

[Fjd]

It's about cheating, skirting the rules to gain a competitive advantage.  It's about the integrity of the game.

 

 

Given your focus on the “cheating” and "integrity" aspect, I’m interested in your expanded views on this aspect if you feel inclined. 

 

In the article below, given that cheating is happening at this low of a level, at such a young age, in a board game, do you believe that cheating gaining some type of societal acceptance overall?  

 

Now instead of giving trophy’s to everyone whether win or lose, are parents really teaching their children that there isn’t any economic or personal social upside to being honest and fair in today’s world?  You must cheat to get ahead?

 

We see it in the daily news with financial institutions, stock markets, business, etc.  Then look at the professional baseball and basketball players that do everything they can to lie and trick umpires and referees into favorable decisions. 

 

Of course, with pro football, the players don’t seem any different when they hold a ball carrier erect and then assault the ball carrier to strip out a fumble. 

 

Isn’t this really a blantant form of, "I got one over on you” cheating and it just sucks to get caught? 

 

Where are the guys like Vince Lombardi that verbally chewed out a running back after an overly exuberant display of celebration and stated, “Next time you make a touchdown, act like you've been there before”?

 

In some respects, somehow it seems that more and more people may be looking at cheating as acceptable as long as you don't get caught doing it………

 

 

 

 

 

Scrabble Player Caught Cheating At National Championship Tournament For First Time

AP  |  Posted: 08/15/2012 6:18 am Updated: 08/15/2012 6:19 am

 

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — One of the top young Scrabble players in the country has been kicked out of the game's national championship tournament in Florida after he was caught hiding blank letter tiles, organizers said Tuesday.

John D. Williams, Jr., executive director of the National Scrabble Association, said that a male player was ejected from the 350-player event in Round 24 of the 28-round event.

 

The cheating was spotted by a player at a nearby table, who noticed the ejected player conceal a pair of blank tiles by dropping them on the floor, organizers said. Blank tiles can be used as wild card letters. When confronted by the tournament director, he admitted to it, organizers said.

 

Williams, who has served as executive director for 25 years and co-authored a book on the popular Hasbro board game in 1993, said this was the first incident of cheating at a national tournament. However, he said it's been known to occur at smaller, regional events.

 

"It does happen no matter what. People will try to do this," he said. "It's the first time it's happened in a venue this big though. It's unfortunate. The Scrabble world is abuzz. The Internet is abuzz."

 

Williams would not identify the player by name or age because he's a minor. There are four divisions and he was competing in Division 3.

 

He said Division 3 is equal to "any great living-room player out there."

 

In Scrabble matches, players accumulate points during one-on-one matches by pulling random letter tiles from a bag of 100 and trying to create words.

 

A total of 98 tiles have letters on them and two are blank. Blank tiles can be used as wild card letters to complete words.

 

The ejected player had concluded a previous game and never reinserted the blank tiles into his bag in an attempt to use them at his discretion in the next game, organizers said.

 

Players in the national tournament format play multiple matches over the five-day event. The winner is determined by a combination of their overall record against other players and the cumulative point spread over the entire tournament.

 

The ejected player forfeited all of his wins.

 

Williams said there is usually "good self-policing in the Scrabble world" as players try to protect the integrity of statistics on the competitive circuit.

 

That's because national events draw young players to seniors. The leader entering Wednesday's final day of competition is National and Scrabble All-Star Champion David Gibson, a 61-year-old math teacher from Spartanburg, S.C.

 

Jason Keller, 30, and nine-time Jeopardy champion from New Jersey, is in fourth place.

 

The winner receives the $10,000 top prize.

 

"It gets pretty deep. We're one step away from drug testing," Williams joked.

 

While Williams said this was the first time the national tournament has dealt with scandal, the incident could shine a brighter light on other advantages players have been known to employ.

 

Even before Tuesday's cheating ejection it was well-known that some players take minerals known as "alleged brain boosters."

 

"But no steroids so far," Williams quipped.

[RT FAN]

Did the Patriots cheat, yes. Did Brady know? Of course. Every QB I have seen interviewed said they would know if the ball was not inflated properly. Will it matter? No, the Pats will still win their division this year.

 

 BTW the real truth of the matter is that the New York Football Giants beat the mighty Patriots TWICE in the Super Bowl, holding them to a COMBINED total of 31 points in those two games.    

[oldtimer]

It's the truth, but not of the matter.

[Gilbert]

Him and the entire organization.  It has become an integral part of their culture. 

 

 

Agreed, but partly for different reasons. Don't really watch much American football at all, but I'm pretty darn sure that Brady is a professional, and knows what a properly inflated ball should feel like.

 

Would be curious to know what the change in temperature was between the start of the game, at the mid-way point versus the near the last quarter. But I seriously doubt it would be substantial enough to make the differences being mentioned.

 

From what I've read, some guys think the size of the ball is what's critical, but I would assume it's all about texture and the ability to grab and hold onto the ball.

 

That's my 2 cents worth, now back to racing.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Gilbert

[MookieStl]

yes.

[wvu80]

Given your focus on the “cheating” and "integrity" aspect, I’m interested in your expanded views on this aspect if you feel inclined. 

 

Tough question!  It's like trying to answer a one-page essay question on a History final, "discuss World War II." 

 

There's a little view and a big view. 

 

For me personally, I'm a rule book thumper.  If I'm playing by the rules, I HATE it when the other guy doesn't.

 

But for these guys in the NFL, we are talking millions and millions of dollars as the reward for cheating.  Every time a lineman holds on pass rusher and doesn't get caught, that's cheating.  The QB is saved from a sack, the game is saved, the cheater's team wins and goes on to the Superbowl, and the cheater goes to the Pro Bowl because he never allows a sack!  Huzzah for the cheater!

 

But do you know why it's NOT cheating?  Because he didn't get caught.  It's only a penalty for holding if the ref says it is.  Turn the page.

 

I'll use term "Pats" instead of "Brady" for brevity.

 

What the Pats are accused of is SERIAL cheating, SYSTEMATIC cheating.  The lineman who cheats is NOT the same as the TEAM that serial cheats.  My particular point would be, who is in charge of keeping the playing field level from an institutional point of view?

 

Two answers.  The TEAM must police itself or face fines.  I also think the LEAGUE bears some responsibility for this as well. 

 

The institutional side of that is the claim here is (paraphrasing) that "Brady touches the ball every time and therefore MUST have known they were deflated."  Well, the REFEREE touches the ball every time, too!  Brady CANNOT touch a ball on the field of play unless and until the referee has in essence, given it to him.  Is the ref in that game going to be fired or suspended as well?

 

That is why I think the league has some partial responsibility for ALLOWING deflated balls to be put into play.  The ball boy hands the ball to the Side Judge.  The Side Judge then tosses it to the ref in the middle of the field, who then declares it ready for play.  If BRADY (the Pats) should have known, the the LEAGUE (refs) should have known as well.

 

I am not for cheating, but if the league had direct control over the ball EVERY SINGLE TIME the ball was in play, I don't see how they can PUNISH the Pats so severely.

 

Do you want a TRULY logical and natural consequence to the under inflating "cheating" that has been alleged?  The NEXT time the Pats and Colts meet, allow the Colts to under inflate the ball.  The playing field is now LEVELED.

 

I don't know if I addressed the excellent question you posed.  But I'll stop here, because I'm long winded enough as it is. 

Edited May 12, 2015 by wvu80

[Fjd]

 

Given your focus on the “cheating” and "integrity" aspect, I’m interested in your expanded views on this aspect if you feel inclined. 

 

Tough question!  It's like trying to answer a one-page essay question on a History final, "discuss World War II." 

 

There's a little view and a big view. 

 

For me personally, I'm a rule book thumper.  If I'm playing by the rules, I HATE it when the other guy doesn't.

 

But for these guys in the NFL, we are talking millions and millions of dollars as the reward for cheating.  Every time a lineman holds on pass rusher and doesn't get caught, that's cheating.  The QB is saved from a sack, the game is saved, the cheater's team wins and goes on to the Superbowl, and the cheater goes to the Pro Bowl because he never allows a sack!  Huzzah for the cheater!

 

But do you know why it's NOT cheating?  Because he didn't get caught.  It's only a penalty for holding if the ref says it is.  Turn the page.

 

I'll use term "Pats" instead of "Brady" for brevity.

 

What the Pats are accused of is SERIAL cheating, SYSTEMATIC cheating.  The lineman who cheats is NOT the same as the TEAM that serial cheats.  My particular point would be, who is in charge of keeping the playing field level from an institutional point of view?

 

Two answers.  The TEAM must police itself or face fines.  I also think the LEAGUE bears some responsibility for this as well. 

 

The institutional side of that is the claim here is (paraphrasing) that "Brady touches the ball every time and therefore MUST have known they were deflated."  Well, the REFEREE touches the ball every time, too!  Brady CANNOT touch a ball on the field of play unless and until the referee has in essence, given it to him.  Is the ref in that game going to be fired or suspended as well?

 

That is why I think the league has some partial responsibility for ALLOWING deflated balls to be put into play.  The ball boy hands the ball to the Side Judge.  The Side Judge then tosses it to the ref in the middle of the field, who then declares it ready for play.  If BRADY (the Pats) should have known, the the LEAGUE (refs) should have known as well.

 

I am not for cheating, but if the league had direct control over the ball EVERY SINGLE TIME the ball was in play, I don't see how they can PUNISH the Pats so severely.

 

Do you want a TRULY logical and natural consequence to the under inflating "cheating" that has been alleged?  The NEXT time the Pats and Colts meet, allow the Colts to under inflate the ball.  The playing field is now LEVELED.

 

I don't know if I addressed the excellent question you posed.  But I'll stop here, because I'm long winded enough as it is. 

 

 

 

Interesting observations, given the national attention and publicity the issue attracted, it may just be more of a form of “scapegoating” to allow the "dysfunctional family" known as the NFL to keep up the appearances that they are taking the issue seriously and thus taking attention off of the real underlying problems.

[Joseph Jove]

Yet to see evidence.  Did both teams not use the same ball?

I'm pretty sure they don't play with each others balls.

[oldtimer]

I wouldn't be that sure.

[Tarheel]

 

Yet to see evidence.  Did both teams not use the same ball?

I'm pretty sure they don't play with each others balls.

 

As I said "Yet to see the evidence".  Notice how the QB always has his hands on the centers rear

[billybob]

Yesah, what's up with that?

[akdave]

http://www.msnbc.com/now/watch/full-tom-brady-deflate-gate-press-conference-387846723865

At 1:40 of this interview which was after they beat the Colts, Tom Brady was asked, "Is Tom Brady a cheater?" Someone just called out Tom Brady's morals, ethics, honesty and if he plays by the rules. His answer, "I don't believe so???" Wow, the innocent man says, NO I am not a cheater or, I always play by the rules and never cheat, or you are questioning my ethics and my morals on how I play the game and NO I am not a cheater!!! Instead we get, "I don't believe so." Hey Tom, did you steal my cookie, "I don't believe so." Hey Tom did you steal that car? "I don't believe so." Hey Tom, did you lie about your knowledge of "Deflategate?" "I don't believe so."

My opinion after raising three kids and interviewing more witnesses and criminal suspects than I care to count, "I don't believe so" just doesn't cut it! That's a deflection, not an answer. I think he's guilty as the day is long. Sorry Pat's fans.

Having been a cop in my former life, this jumped out at me like a neon sign as well.  Innocent people plainly say no and stay right on that message.  It matters to be cleared and quickly, the "I don't believe so" screams I'm busted. 

 

It's akin to the super student having a cheat sheet for a big exam.  They don't need it, they'll score a great mark anyway, but the bottom line is they cheated.  Pats win that game 8 or 9 times out of 10, but the character is revealed and it's a shame.  The good news is I guess, his conscience isn't dead - he's a terrible liar. 

 

I also agree they have a poor PIO - someone needs to coach him better than that!     Oh well, suspension or not, they got their ring. That's what matters right? 

[Travis In Austin]

Didn't Nixon write a coursebook on that?

No course book, but a lot of rationalization. He was on a whole different level than denial. This isn't political, it is historical, and this is the quote that summarizes it all:

Nixon: Well, when the president does it that means that it is not illegal.

Frost: By definition.

Nixon: Exactly. Exactly. If the president, for example, approves something because of the national security, or in this case because of a threat to internal peace and order of significant magnitude, then the president's decision in that instance is one that enables those who carry it out, to carry it out without violating a law. Otherwise they're in an impossible position.

[oldtimer]

Lincoln did it first.

[Gilbert]

Do you want a TRULY logical and natural consequence to the under inflating "cheating" that has been alleged? The NEXT time the Pats and Colts meet, allow the Colts to under inflate the ball. The playing field is now LEVELED.

 

 

QUESTION?

 

I assume there is a specific pressure range, and the ball must be within that range.... Is this a correct assumption?

 

Based on the NFL's findings, I assume the Pat's ball was out of range, too low...... Is this correct?

[billybob]

 

Didn't Nixon write a coursebook on that?

No course book, but a lot of rationalization. He was on a whole different level than denial. This isn't political, it is historical, and this is the quote that summarizes it all:

Nixon: Well, when the president does it that means that it is not illegal.

Frost: By definition.

Nixon: Exactly. Exactly. If the president, for example, approves something because of the national security, or in this case because of a threat to internal peace and order of significant magnitude, then the president's decision in that instance is one that enables those who carry it out, to carry it out without violating a law. Otherwise they're in an impossible position.

 

Was thinking of the David Frost interview earlier. Nixon was a professional so, wrote the book on kissing babies, among other t hings in his early career. Definitive!

Maybe Brady thought all of his balls felt a little soft that day.