Opening a Pub and want to use klipsch. What are your thoughts?

[Paducah Home Theater]

I would look at what was done with Acme Feed and Seed in NashVegas, especially since it sounds like your building will be very similar.  

 

http://www.klipsch.com/blog/klipsch-install-stories-acme-feed-seed/

 

My problem with a small amount of PA speakers is that you will have hot spots where it will be overbearingly loud at some tables.  People first and foremost go to a pub to talk with their friends, so you don't want to drown them out, or have some tables that are much worse than others.  That's why I like this other approach, basically lots of smaller speakers, geographically dispersed.  The volume will be much more uniform doing this.  It looks like they used AW-650's there, but there are commercial sites doing the same thing with CP-6's.  These are very affordable.  

 

As for an actual PA system, nowadays bands and DJ's typically bring their own gear, and only the real serious joints have a dedicated in-house PA system.  I would skip this at least at first.  Any cranking going on will likely be at special events with a DJ or band bringing in much bigger equipment.  

 

It seems that many installs like this utilize the radio stations on Dish Network, basically you just have a small TV in the back just so you can change channels and see what's going on, otherwise they take the audio output and feed it into some amps.  

Edited August 6, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[LarryC]

Colterphoto1 is exactly the person to turn to!  He might be able to help you try out Heresy's, Forte's (pref. Forte II's) and La Scala's.  They will probably have to be "flown", but Colter knows all about that!

[LarryC]

brick wall! you're acoustically doomed!!!!! OMG!!!!!

I think he has to try it out to see.  Hard, smooth, glassy surfaces are bad news, hard to tolerate in even quiet restaurants, but brick surfaces have zillions of nooks and crannies to bounce around and absorb sound, and might sound pretty good. 

Edited August 6, 2015 by LarryC

[bhendrix]

Hi Birdman,

 

Contact Trey Cannon at Klipsch in Indy.  Trey works with Klipsch engineering and has designed many systems for commercial installations like yours, including the Jazz Kitchen in Indy.

 

Accept no substitute.  Call Trey . . . .

 

1-800-KLIPSCH

[muel]

I've been in a few establishments just like you are describing and they are god awful echo boxes!  It isn't just the music but the voices and other noise that bounces around forever.  I either don't go back or avoid as much as possible.  The brick is fine but do something to knock down the echo... your patrons will thank you.  I would think there would be something you could do to keep with the decor but still absorb or diffuse some of the echo.  

 

Why go to a pub if you can't understand a word anybody says and the music just sounds like noise?

 

Congratulations on your venture and best of luck!

[twistedcrankcammer]

I have zero experience with PA speakers. If its beyond receiver to speaker with a positive and negative wire lead its above my head at this point. I will have to read up on PA systems. I am located half way between Chicago and Indy right off I65 just north of Lafayette. I'm digging around trying to come up with a couple pictures to share, I don't have my laptop with me today.

 

 

New to the community, don't shoot me if I'm not posting in the correct location.

 

My family and I are opening a Pub. Massive renovations are on going in a 108 year old building. I am a long way from needing speakers but If I knew what I should be hunting for I might be able to pick up speakers at a deal along the way.   Any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm not new to audio but I am certainly not an expert so bear with me.

 

The building is 78' long and 18' 6'' wide, exposed brick walls. The celling is 12' high, original tin, absolutely gorgeous if you're into that era. I have not decided what to finish the floor with, It will probably end up oak tongue and grove to keep in tune with the era of the building. There is a slight possibility of ceramic tile. (lets hope not)

 

I plan to hang bookshelf or slightly bigger speakers on the wall or hang from the ceiling. My question is what would you suggest I use for speakers? This set up will mainly be used for background music throughout the day or for super bowl ect.  BUT they need to be able to handle some power, I like to crank it up when I'm in the mood, before and after business hours ect.  There is another room 40' by 18' 6'' I plan to put a juke box in, that will be a project for another day.

 

I have a pair of 3.2s I bought at an estate, they were just too cute to pass up. I think they would work perfect. 2 or 3 PAIR in the large 78' room? I have a Yamaha rxv1700 that I plan to use, I already own it being one major plus, and I'm familiar with the settings and its capabilities.

 

 

What do you think? I'm not trying to spend thousands on some background music....but there is no set spending limit. Thanks for your time!  -Aaron.

birdman1996,

After reading your post and others responses, My suggestion is for multiple pairs of Herisies. The HIP PA speakers are a fine choice, H.I.P. stands for Heresy Industrial Ported. The more pairs of speakers you can place in there, the better. As was said, go into a Chipolties as they utilize Klipsch Heresies, and of course, if you have it in your budget, a professional Klipsch install would be optimal and idiot free, but multiple pairs of Herisies and or HIPs if you can find them would be ideal if you are trying to save money on a used budget and do this yourself. The Hereseys also have a lot smaller, less ostrusive footprint than a lot of the other suggestions.

Great Luck to you..... Roger

[Schu]

http://www.klipsch.com/ki-396-sma-ii/details

 

Edited August 6, 2015 by Schu

[dtel]

Hi Birdman,

 

Contact Trey Cannon at Klipsch in Indy.  Trey works with Klipsch engineering and has designed many systems for commercial installations like yours, including the Jazz Kitchen in Indy.

 

Accept no substitute.  Call Trey . . . .

 

1-800-KLIPSCH

Exactly, it's what Trey and Roy do, they design systems for every size and shape venue. It can't hurt to find out what this incurs.  

[BigStewMan]

You’re getting way ahead of yourself … first things first….what kind of beer will be on tap?   Moosehead?

[Mighty Favog]

I was just thinking he could use a few pair of these:

http://www.klipsch.com/kpt-250/details

[YK Thom]

I have seen the CA series used in several restaurants and women's retail stores in Edmonton. Easily ceiling and wall mountable.

[jwc]

Kool to use Klipsch here. Kp 250s or Kp201s are great sound for their size.

However...I would concur with the idea of some room treaments.

[minermark]

Hi Birdman,

 

Contact Trey Cannon at Klipsch in Indy.  Trey works with Klipsch engineering and has designed many systems for commercial installations like yours, including the Jazz Kitchen in Indy.

 

Accept no substitute.  Call Trey . . . .

 

1-800-KLIPSCH

I hope Birdman is doing this single best move he could make, a free system designer is exactly what birdman ask for.

Id love someone like trey to show up and tell me what is needed and what is not.

[Schu]

http://www.klipsch.com/blog/klipsch-install-stories-sun-king-fishers-tap-room-small-batch-brewery/

[djk]

^{One pair of Heresy in the front, and a single one half way back on a delay line, that's really all that would be needed.}

^{Add a single sub (up front) if you want lots of volume, or lots of bass.}

 

^{The one on the delay is set a bit quieter than what the sound from the fronts make at that point in the room, it's just for clarity.}

Edited August 10, 2015 by djk

[garyrc]

Heresy's. If they're good enough for Chipotle, they're good enough for your pub.

 They would be good, but they may not go loud enough if you want to really rock the place from time to time.  If you truly want background music, they would be fine.  I doubt if Chipotle ever really rocks.  I'd look for Klipsch professional if you can find some with horn loaded bass, not just horn loaded midrange/treble ... maybe two or more Jubs with earthquake-safe mountings up near the ceiling, pointed down, mid-crowd.  I'm probably just dreaming for both of us.  If you can't aquire pros with horn loaded bass, some of the regular Heritage line would be good, e.g., La Scala IIs.  The La Scala I is no stranger to good bars, but the La Scala II has a less resonant cabinet, I hear.

[djk]

"They would be good, but they may not go loud enough if you want to really rock the place from time to time.  If you truly want background music, they would be fine.  I doubt if Chipotle ever really rocks.  I'd look for Klipsch professional if you can find some with horn loaded bass, not just horn loaded midrange/treble ... maybe two or more Jubs with earthquake-safe mountings up near the ceiling, pointed down, mid-crowd.  I'm probably just dreaming for both of us.  If you can't aquire pros with horn loaded bass, some of the regular Heritage line would be good, e.g., La Scala IIs.  The La Scala I is no stranger to good bars, but the La Scala II has a less resonant cabinet, I hear."

 

Any original Heresy can be made into a HIP with very little effort.

 

Crossed over at 150hz to a pair of my PPSL subs they will rip your face off in a space that small.

 

 

This is for one of my PPSL sub and what amounts to two HIP tops. 400W on each top, and 1200W on the sub. While they only play about 130dB for the tops or sub by themselves, on broadband program material the both of them together will play about 6dB louder.

 

Do they realy need more than 136dB peak at 1M?

 

The critical distance in that room will not be any greater than 20 feet, so it will be able to play in excess of 120dB peak anywhere in the room.

 

A single delayed speaker will be enough to keep the ALCONS (articulation loss of consonants in a reverberant field) to a reasonable level.

 

 

[djk]

Note:

 

I've run a HIP on top of a Klipschorn, above about 200hz it is louder, and tonally sounds better.

 

The PPSL goes deeper and sounds cleaner (has less distortion).

 

Biamped at 150hz, this combo sounds better, goes deeper, and plays louder.

 

I used to install the LaScala with a Klipschorn bottom in clubs and biamp at 100hz. I would not do so today, I would use the HIP instead.

 

(I once did a big club with 14 Heresy, 2 LaScala, and 2 Klipschorn (K44 instead of K33) bottoms)

Edited August 10, 2015 by djk

[garyrc]

In addition to speakers, have you also begun to give some thought to acoustic treatments?  Rigid panels, curtains, etc?  Obviously your ceiling is too low, and too architecturally valuable to utilize "cloud" panels, but I would think that with the construction materials in the building room that you should really consider some types of treatments.  Will you have live music at any time, dancing, etc?  These would be other things to think about relative to treatment, speaker, source components and amplification.  I'm sure you are hoping for lots and lots of customers (as we are wishing you good luck too!), but if not configured properly and room treatment installed, music may become an afterthought underneath the din of the crowd noise.....      

 

In the '70s, the Boarding House in San Francisco -- a long thin venue shaped like yours, but somewhat wider -- had a huge, convex curved, beautiful, dark hardwood Bonner type diffuser hanging on the left wall that doubled as a broadband membrane absorber.   It looked like the front panel on a JBL Paragon, but much, much bigger (Google the Paragon to see what I mean).  The sound was quite good.  You probably should read up on audio oriented acoustical treatments -- absorbers and diffusers -- if you haven't already.  Don't trust an ordinary contractor, because many don't know much about musical acoustics. 

 

IMO, although in some pubs music can become lost, Klipsch speakers can cut right through the din of crowd noise, the way jazz group does in a large, noise filled venue.  Brass and cymbals, in particular, come through pretty well.  The customers can tune in or tune out, as they wish.  I spent some pleasent hours in a pub with home brew speakers that happened to have the same tweeter as the La Scala I and II, and could hear the sparkling highs through the noise, almost continuously.

[garyrc]

... People first and foremost go to a pub to talk with their friends, so you don't want to drown them out, or have some tables that are much worse than others. That's why I like this other approach, basically lots of smaller speakers, geographically dispersed. The volume will be much more uniform doing this.

 

O.K., now I'm changing my opinion regarding the speakers themselves; MetropolisLakeOutfitters' point is well taken.  So, maybe a whole bunch of Heresy IIIs would be just the ticket, with impedance matching and delay as others have mentioned.  Just in case you ever wanted to really crank it up, for a dance or joyous celebration, you could always have a couple of subwoofers, hidden behind grille cloth or other acoustically transparent fabric, as well.  I like the idea of mounting the the Main speakers (e/g/, Heresy IIIs), on an angle, rather tha aimed right at the opposite, parallel wall.   Some absorbers and diffusers still would probably help.  Getting the help of Klipsch people of the caliber of Roy or Trey would be ideal.  I wonder what they charge?

Edited August 11, 2015 by garyrc