Jubilee 53 at work

[CECAA850]

This Roy guy they are talking about probably doesn't have a clue about these speakers anyway.

 

Not much of a fisherman either.

[Mallette]

 

This Roy guy they are talking about probably doesn't have a clue about these speakers anyway.

 

Not much of a fisherman either.

 

And deaf as a post.

 

Dave

[jacksonbart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU8jolmrEaE

[USNRET]

 

 

This Roy guy they are talking about probably doesn't have a clue about these speakers anyway.

 

Not much of a fisherman either.

 

And deaf as a post.

 

Dave

 

Do not offer this man a beer; he's a teetoteler

[JL Sargent]

Remember that bass Roy caught and used as his avatar. Monster!

[PrestonTom]

 

 

When the OP has calmed down, I would be happy to explain why he might not want to cross as high as 800Hz.

First, we need to wait for him to stop insulting everyone before we can have a grown up conversation.

 

No thanks!

 

Not looking for advice.

 

If you see me ask, then you can throw your $0.02 at me.

 

OK buddy?

 

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

I agree with you.  Don't listen to these guys, Just enjoy your speakers.  This Roy guy they are talking about probably doesn't have a clue about these speakers anyway.

 

A number of us are skeptical that this advice was actually given. Is it possible that the guy misunderstood or the advice was given with several qualifications about the set up. I sure hope a new Jublilee owner who might read this is not sent down the wrong path. However, the OP has his mind made up and he can do whatever he wants.

 

Isn't it curious that at least two or three dozen other Jubilee owners were advised to set the crossover about an octave lower and were also provided an explanation of why it should be done this way. But wait, that would require a grown up conversation. One that was not so hostile in its tone.

[mungkiman]

Edit: Show us your motorcycles...

Edited August 27, 2015 by mungkiman

[Chris A]

If the OP is not using the K-1133 midrange drivers that come standard with the commercial-variety KPT-535-Jubilee (3-way version), and has instead asked to use some other driver that has a manufacturer's minimum suggested crossover frequency that is significantly higher than 300 Hz, I can see where whoever is advising the OP would simply say - "okay, cross over at a higher frequency" to complete the sale. 

 

But we already know about the KPT-KHJ-LF polars issue and what that is doing to the sound when that happens. 

 

We also know about how OEM compression driver manufacturers inflate the minimum crossover frequency in order to minimize product warranty replacements--even though their drivers are usually good for almost an octave lower than they recommend if the user is using digital crossover filters of higher order, which are stable with thermal compression of the driver. But the manufacturers typically assume that their customers are using first order crossover filters, and that the application is commercial sound--with much much higher SPL on average (usually well over 100 dB at one metre) than the home environment (usually less that 85 dB at one metre).  The customer reads those specifications and figures that he should follow them (even though they're not applicable in his case). 

 

When you put these factors together, you now have a higher and less desirable crossover frequency being "recommended". I believe that at least a part of that story likely happened in this case, and invited the OP to share the name of the person giving the advice.  I'm pretty sure that it wasn't Roy.  But the OP apparently has chosen not to discuss it (defensively) but rather chose to argue about the crossover point while another subject--objects in the near field blocking the path to the listener from the bass bins--was actually being recommended for relocation by this writer.  This observation (the near-field reflectors) was given to the OP due entirely on this writer's seven years of experience using Klipsch Jubilees in room and knowing how sensitive they are to any reflective objects in the near field, even if those objects are not on a direct line from the loudspeakers to the listening position(s). 

 

Perhaps in the mean time, the OP might have tried the lower crossover frequency and heard the increased quality of room-filling sound that the Jubilee is famous for, instead of the usual "...I tried them, but didn't like them...they didn't sound very good" response due to the user's poor installation and understanding of corner horn setup.  There are other corrections and improvements that could be made, but it is clear now in hindsight that ego was fractured by mentioning anything.   

 

These loudspeakers are very sensitive to how and where you put them in-room, and the differences in their set up can be like night and day improvements to the resulting sound...(whatever the user might be playing on them... )

 

By the way, I really do not recommend the commercial version of the Jubilee for home or small business sound system application due to several factors, most of which are outside the scope of this discussion.  But mainly, it was Roy himself that recommended the current de facto standard two-way version for these applications, and I might add, using better high frequency compression drivers full-range from 400-20000 Hz on the K-402.  That was the first clue to me that the OP wasn't "plugged in" to the community of home Jubilee owners, and most importantly, to Roy himself, who started all the configurations and recommendations that you are seeing written here, i.e., what I am writing about didn't come from me originally, but rather from Roy, and were independently discovered by myself as I was seeking solutions to in-room sound issues over a time span of perhaps 4 years. 

 

If anyone wishes to talk about those subjects (2-way Jubilee instead of 3-way commercial version), I'd be happy to do it--but in a new thread.

 

Chris

Edited August 27, 2015 by Chris A

[Scotty H]

One KPT-Jubilee.....Note the Three vents ("Wings") on the Bass Bin. http://www.klipsch.com/kpt-jubilee/details

 

My 2015 KPT-Jubilee (Four vents, or "shelves" totally different!)    http://www.klipsch.com/KPT-Jubilee-535-B

 

 

 

These are not the same animals.

 

If you are going to start an accurate argument or post test results...., then please specify what version you are referring to.

 

I spoke with Chris at the manufacturing facility I believe. OK?

 

The current 3-way 535b sounds fantastic. I love them very much.

 

2-way...."no way" for me.

 

Do you guys even know what drivers are in my Bass Bins, or what you think you know about past versions?

Go ahead and take a guess.....

 

 

These are 0001 and 0002 built this year. (The Bass Bins)

Ordered from local Klipsch dealer.

All speakers have individual serial numbers.

Mids and Tweeters are not 0001 and 0002s....much higher because they are offered in many various speakers.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Scotty H

[Chris A]

Unless the distance between the two mouths decreased by a factor of 2, the mouth diffraction problem that was discussed (above) is still with you, regardless of the drivers used or how many stiffeners are used internally.

 

I'm glad you "love them very much".  I think that they're pretty nice myself.

 

Chris

[Chris A]

I'm also glad that you've returned to talk - as we need good experiences from all that use Klipsch loudspeakers, especially the last one that PWK had a hand in designing (along with Roy, who actually did the work, I believe, because PWK was in his mid-90s at the time). 

 

I think that you'll really like Roy - he's a man of few words and a really terse sense of humor.  He also really "knows his stuff" since he becoming PWK's apprentice in the mid-1980s.  I've learned a great deal from him, and continue to learn every time that I speak with him.  He continues to churn out new Klipsch Cinema products as that product line's chief engineer.

 

The more that I've learned about these loudspeakers and what makes them sound good (or better), the more I've learned about small room acoustics (like we all have), horn design and horn theory, including Roy's design philosophies and principles, but also others that are still at it, like Danley, Geddes, and others.  It is a fascinating subject that has a great deal of really bad information being passed around, and for a long time, indeed (decades, in fact).  Danley sums it up to say that he's been able to do things that others haven't thought about simply because he started questioning existing theory and began looking at the problem with "new eyes". 

 

In addition, we need experiences of people that own these large loudspeakers - since so many others that frequent these forums haven't even heard them, much less understand why the design choices were made as they were, and why they sound so good -even while being large loudspeakers (which, I've found doesn't necessarily mean that they sound better).  The Jub owners here I've found to be a extremely helpful and communicative group-sometimes with drive-by visits from Roy himself ("Chief bonehead" is his handle).

 

Using different drivers and changing design details on the bass bins, and even perhaps the design specifics of the K-402/K-510 horns and compression drivers can result in incremental or perhaps greater improvements than initially thought by those that own them.

 

YMMV.

 

Welcome to the forum--at least from my knothole...

 

Chris

Edited August 27, 2015 by Chris A

[mikebse2a3]

One KPT-Jubilee.....Note the Three vents ("Wings") on the Bass Bin. http://www.klipsch.com/kpt-jubilee/details

 

My 2015 KPT-Jubilee (Four vents, or "shelves" totally different!)    http://www.klipsch.com/KPT-Jubilee-535-B

 

 

 

These are not the same animals.

 

If you are going to start an accurate argument or post test results...., then please specify what version you are referring to.

Just to clarify performance of the 2 builds types are the same per Roy.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/147255-jubilee-kpt-khj-lf-k402-kpt-k402-fact-sheets/

miketn

[CECAA850]

However, the Chevelle was actually a rare special order COPO Chevelle with the 427 cid engine, 425 hp and 460 ft-lb torque.

 

I think they measured engine horse power back then as opposed to at the rear wheels like they do today.

 

Back to speakers, sorry for the thread drift.

 

 

OP, definitely glad you're back and posting.  Please stick around.

[jwc]

Hmm.  New drivers in the Jubs maybe?  That would mean past Passives by Roy probably won't work with the previous Jubs with K31s

[Chris A]

Obsolescence issues on the K-31s? Roy has mentioned this subject in the past (5 years ago, in fact).  The K-31 is an extremely odd driver design, as I find out.

 

Chris

Edited August 27, 2015 by Chris A

[mark1101]

^{After nearly 7 years now with the 402 horns (and 3 years with the 510s), and after a lot of experimentation I my opinion is that the 510/402 combination sounds more pleasing to me than a 402 playing the whole (MF/HF) range alone.  The upper frequencies just don't have the emphasis on the 2-way compared to the 3-way.}

 

^{While maybe not as technically correct for a room in a house.........it simply sounds better to me.  Not by a little.  Of course I have both methods setup today still and every time I direct compare my opinion stays the same.  YMMV.}

 

^{In the end I just never really got used to a 2-way setup.  I was one of "those guys".  Had to have 5-way.}   

[jwc]

I concur with the above.  Had the 510/402 combo about 5 years...really like it.  I'm downsizing my stereo now so mark1101 will have two setups with the 402/510 combo.  

[mark1101]

Yeah once that is a done deal............then I won't be able to compare anymore.  Have done that long enough. I'll just tolerate having my dream setup on both speaker systems. 

[ClaudeJ1]

After nearly 7 years now with the 402 horns (and 3 years with the 510s), and after a lot of experimentation I my opinion is that the 510/402 combination sounds more pleasing to me than a 402 playing the whole (MF/HF) range alone.  The upper frequencies just don't have the emphasis on the 2-way compared to the 3-way.

 

I was also in the room with you when you heard the 3-way, which I liked better than the 2-way as well. K1133 had lower Xover for better mid detail and the K510 tweeter added the rest at wider dispersion indeed. This is why I went 3-way also with my K402's.

Edited August 27, 2015 by ClaudeJ1

[ClaudeJ1]

Yeah once that is a done deal............then I won't be able to compare anymore.  Have done that long enough. I'll just tolerate having my dream setup on both speaker systems. 

You got to it first, you dog. LOL. Greed is good!