anarchist Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Interestingly enough, I reviewed some of the other forums I frequent with regard to audio, cars, tools, etc. that are hosted by the respective manufacturer. There was no ToS in sight, various forums encouraging modifications, upgrades, and pointing to vendors for specific items. In short, they are taking the exact opposite approach some on here are proposing Klipsch should take. It is Klipsch's forum, they may do as they please, however, this forum was built - not by Klipsch and its contributions - but by an almost cult following of Klipsch loyalists that Klipsch appears eager to provoke. I find it interesting that Klipsch ignores the lessons of Harley Davidson; there were those that advocated Harley put a stop to all those 'vendors', 'upgraders', and 'tinkerers.' If HD had listened, well, they would just be a footnote in the history books. Instead, the Davidson's saw the short-sightedness of that approach and instead embraced those 'upgraders' and 'resellers' making HD the largest motorcycle company in the world with a rabidly loyal following. Some on here might do well to watch Discovery's mini-series on HD. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted September 9, 2016 Klipsch Employees Share Posted September 9, 2016 To me it's pretty simple. And I will explain later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 54 minutes ago, muel said: I'm tired of the enthusiasts being run off here. You seem to be under-appreciating the effect that the "flames" have on running off those that are really good (technically knowledgeable and creative at the same time). I know several people that have left the forum over time due to this general propensity of some making a living here "protecting their products" and dissing Klipsch products (Klipsch products have actually been quite a bit superior: ask me about the specifics in a PM if you want to know). These knowledgeable people simply get tired and leave. I've lost more than one friend here to this. It seems to me that there is an assumption that what is being said by Roy has some sort of negative effect on the "enthusiasts" here. I believe the effect of what he said will have just the opposite and extremely positive effect in attracting new enthusiasts here (perhaps younger ones, too), as well as retaining and re-attracting those without a financial axe to grind but with real technical abilities back. If it matters at all, I have issues with those that make at least a partial living selling their wares here plus extremely strong and vocal opinions, oftentimes which displays their personal bias and limitations--quite strongly. I know where the web sites are for the third party products. I would appreciate those owners staying off this forum if they believe that they "have to protect their products here". I don't know about you but I welcome fresh new faces with something new to share. As it stands, I believe many potential new members that can share a lot are being driven off due to the current abuses mentioned by Roy, above. Chris 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Well someone has been posting here: Forum Statistics Total Topics 129876 Total Posts 1697698 Member Statistics Total Members 27742 Most Online 329August 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Chad Posted September 9, 2016 Administrators Share Posted September 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, billybob said: Well someone has been posting here: Forum Statistics Total Topics 129876 Total Posts 1697698 Member Statistics Total Members 27742 Most Online 329August 2 In the interest of transparency: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 The rules regarding vendors that support Klipsch was made by Jim Garrett. It had gotten to a point where none of us could even participate in a thread without being accused of a bias born out of some sick desire to take advantage of other members and line our pockets. Amy finally had to elevate and get an answer on what to do about it. Jim either came on the forum, or Amy posted his response - it's been so long that I just don't remember. His position was that Klipsch needed us because we provided services that Klipsch didn't provide. He even gave Craig a pass, saying that his work enhanced the Klipsch experience. What he then said was clear and unambiguous - self promotion is okay, but no soliciting. Amy enforced this and we complied. She also kept everyone off of our backs. TOS were modified somewhat after one of the owners of SVS started contributing in the Subwoofer sub-forum, but we were told by Amy that it didn't apply to us. No one is "peddling", and no one ever has. I'm a hobbyist, I build what I like, I use what I like, and I promote what I like - just like everyone else around here. People wanted me to modify and/or build things for them, so I did. My business was created out of a vacuum that Klipsch created! Because of chronic pain, I stopped building crossovers. I thought, "well, one advantage is that I can be on the forum and just be a regular person like everyone else, and not have to worry about having my teeth kicked in if I recommend a certain capacitor or network." Yeah, that worked out well. Without healthy (and even sometimes unhealthy) debate, this place is dead. This is the spirit of PK that I was talking about. I like how the fanboy club keeps "liking" everything Roy says. Roy is good people, but he's not omniscient - this is a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 9, 2016 Moderators Share Posted September 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Chris A said: You seem to be under-appreciating the effect that the "flames" have on running off those that are really good (technically knowledgeable and creative at the same time). I know several people that have left the forum over time due to this general propensity of some making a living here "protecting their products" and dissing Klipsch products (Klipsch products have actually been quite a bit superior: ask me about the specifics in a PM if you want to know). These knowledgeable people simply get tired and leave. I've lost more than one friend here to this. It seems to me that there is an assumption that what is being said by Roy has some sort of negative effect on the "enthusiasts" here. I believe the effect of what he said will have just the opposite and extremely positive effect in attracting new enthusiasts here (perhaps younger ones, too), as well as retaining and re-attracting those without a financial axe to grind but with real technical abilities back. If it matters at all, I have issues with those that make at least a partial living selling their wares here plus extremely strong and vocal opinions, oftentimes which displays their personal bias and limitations--quite strongly. I know where the web sites are for the third party products. I would appreciate those owners staying off this forum if they believe that they "have to protect their products here". I don't know about you but I welcome fresh new faces with something new to share. As it stands, I believe many potential new members that can share a lot are being driven off due to the current abuses mentioned by Roy, above. Chris Well said Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 8 minutes ago, Chad said: In the interest of transparency: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Thanks for the charts. I read during the peak of summer slow period, we have a spike in membership. Some of it has to do with the new line(S) of speakers. In any case, we need to welcome new members and not talk them out of buying the new offerings. After they get their feet wet with Klipsch, they will repeat. Know that may not be popular with all... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 10 minutes ago, Chad said: In the interest of transparency... That's a pretty interesting story. Thanks for the data. The "Great Recession" looks like it took its toll on new members, but it looks like it took a while (2012). Can you pull the same data, but just for the Technical/Modifications forum? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Well said? Where is the evidence for that line of reasoning? How come those disgruntled members aren't posting into this thread, or any other thread where this has come up? Who is actually posting and what are their concerns? Wake up. I'm calling complete bullshit on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 There are charts where one can analyze and draw inferences from and to conclusions. However, there is and will be found more than one aspect to be considered. A short cursory point of view can hardly be drawn from an abstract chart. It can be a useful tool however. Another way is to have a window into sales, to see if they line up with graphs... Metrics can be cool, if used appropriately. Sorry, just stating the obvious. Bet Klipsch looks at a lot of variables. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 9, 2016 Moderators Share Posted September 9, 2016 16 minutes ago, Deang said: Well said? Where is the evidence for that line of reasoning? How come those disgruntled members aren't posting into this thread, or any other thread where this has come up? Who is actually posting and what are their concerns? Wake up. I'm calling complete bullshit on this one. You don't welcome fresh new faces with something new to share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 It's also clear to me that people are coming to this forum and reading older posts to answer their questions, and that many of those questions were answered years before. I see a great deal of traffic from guests that are reading those old threads. The "low hanging fruit" has largely been harvested, it seems. The drop in new member and new threads, but the increase in posts in existing threads is also something that I've noticed. Those seem to include "socialization" threads, such as the extremely long RTM and "cocktails" threads. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 In the interest of transparency, of what? What argument or line of thought do those charts support? OK, great, there are peaks and valleys of posts and topics and registrations....yea, so what? It means nothing without background and some reasoning to tie it to..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 14 minutes ago, dwilawyer said: You don't welcome fresh new faces with something new to share? Right, that's obviously the part of his post that I objected to. Good grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 9, 2016 Moderators Share Posted September 9, 2016 1 hour ago, anarchist said: Instead, the Davidson's saw the short-sightedness of that approach and instead embraced those 'upgraders' and 'resellers' making HD the largest motorcycle company in the world with a rabidly loyal following. Really? I'm pretty sure Honda makes AND sells more motorcycles in a month, by more than double, than HD sells in a year. HD does have about a 50% market share in the US, or at least they did. I don't think the analogy quite works in any event. HD builds and sells a product. They provide a significant number of customizable features, at the factory, and at the dealer. People also buy em and do their own customization, mostly from the stand point of cosmetics. But what would there stance be on after-market replacement valves and pistons being touted on their website? Of if they have a forum (do they have a forum?), every time someone says they need to replace the rods someone pops up and says don't buy the parts from the HD dealer, get em from ME because they are proven to "increase performance." Send me a link or two the manufacturer hosted audio and car you mentioned. I would like to go there and poke around and try and learn what it is they are allowing, not allowing, that works so well for them. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 20 minutes ago, Chris A said: It's also clear to me that people are coming to this forum and reading older posts to answer their questions, and that many of those questions were answered years before. I see a great deal of traffic from guests that are reading those old threads. The "low hanging fruit" has largely been harvested, it seems. The drop in new member and new threads, but the increase in posts in existing threads is also something that I've noticed. Those seem to include "socialization" threads, such as the extremely long RTM and "cocktails" threads. Chris Yeah, if we can just eliminate those social threads, we would be in business...lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 http://www.hdforums.com/ Click the link that says "sponsoring vendors". It's under the forum tab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 9 minutes ago, billybob said: Yeah, if we can just eliminate those social threads, we would be in business...lol Clearly, not. It's just that the subject at hand is vendors coming to the K-forum to "protect their products", and those typically aren't in those very long threads, but rather shorter threads that tend to be in the Technical/modifications forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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