When Did We Become So Wimpy On The Forum?

[CECAA850]

4 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

Of if they have a forum (do they have a forum?), every time someone says they need to replace the rods someone pops up and says don't buy the parts from the HD dealer,  get em  from ME because they are proven to "increase performance." 

 

Isn't the first rule of an attorney to never ask for information or a question that they don't already know the answer to?

[Chad]

26 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

In the interest of transparency, of what?  What argument or line of thought do those charts support?  OK, great, there are peaks and valleys of posts and topics and registrations....yea, so what?  It means nothing without background and some reasoning to tie it to.....

I'm just sharing data... Why does everything need to have a deep profound meaning behind it? 

[CECAA850]

Here's how they do it beings you asked.

 

Recently, there have been some questions as to what vendors can and cannot do as far as posting on the forum. We have always had rules, but these are the official written rules. We encourage vendors to visit the entire forum, commenting on off topic posts or giving a member some tech advice, but we do have some guidelines. These are subject to change without notice and special cases will be reviewed upon the administrator’s discretion.
Vendor Guidelines:
Signature rules:
Vendors ARE permitted and encouraged to have a signature picture and link to their business and/or include specials they may be running currently. We just ask that your signature fit within the rules of (INSERT FORUM SIG RULES HERE).
Posting rules:
Vendors ARE PERMITTED to post in any existing thread in any section on the forum. Whether the thread/section relates to your product or not, you are encouraged to post, you may only post solicitations in relevant threads however (i.e. where someone is asking about brake pads, you can discuss the brake pads you carry). You can comment about a big sporting event last night in Off Topic or answer a question relating to your product in technical sections… contribute to other pre-existing threads on the site.
Vendors ARE NOT PERMITTED to START advertising threads in any section not intended explicitly for advertising. The forum provides a vendor posting section in which you may start new threads about your products and you can use posts in existing threads and your signature to link to your threads in the vendor section.
Vendors ARE PERMITTED to start new threads in technical sections, but they MUST be technical oriented in nature and not direct solicitations.
An example of a few titles that are acceptable threads in tech sections:
a. How to install new brake pads.
b. How to change your oil
c. How to install new exhaust

An example of a few titles that are not acceptable threads in tech sections:
a. Hawk brake pads now on sale at stuffforsale.com
b. Come check out our sale prices on oil
c. New exhaust systems in stock!

I picked similar topics for those allowed and not allowed, to illustrate how you can take an advertising thread and make it into an allowable tech post. This way, your advertisements are helpful to members, do-it-yourself articles are generally very popular and they assist greatly in the promotion of your business. Such technical posts can include links to your site but no pricing. They have to provide some technical information to the members to belong in a technical section and they can link to any type of page to help your business but not allowing pricing prevents threads from turning into billboards. You can, however, post about your products and should someone ask about the price you can answer in a later post or PM the interested members.

[dtel's wife]

4 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

 

Aren't "sponsoring vendors" those who pay to advertise?

[billybob]

22 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Clearly, not.  It's just that the subject at hand is vendors coming to the K-forum to "protect their products", and those typically aren't in those very long threads, but rather shorter threads that tend to be in the Technical/modifications forum.

Well then, it will be interesting to see if enough hard data can be had to draw any reasonable conclusion about the topic you put into question.

See it as a big challenge to do so from here...

[billybob]

Bottom line isn't my decision by far. If a decision is made here, then Whoop there it is...

[Chris A]

I think the issue isn't so much the promotion of vendors products as it is the intense rhetoric and, frankly abuse of Klipsch products and members with ideas that aren't supportive of those vendor ideas of "what's better".  I think that's much closer to Roy's comment above.  I don't believe that the "TOS" has been specifically tailored to address those concerns--and it clearly should--like in a "Sponsoring Vendor" contract to advertise here, as Christy hinted above. 

 

As an aside, I also would like know why there are way too few women posting regularly on this forum. The current state is that they seem to stay around only briefly.  Any ideas why that might be?  (I've got a few.) I find that their participation usually makes any forum much more self-moderating. 

 

Chris

 

 

[oldtimer]

7 minutes ago, Chris A said:

I find that their participation usually makes any forum much more self-moderating.

The Dune series of books makes a similar case for an all female army and subsequent occupying force for pacification.

[oldtimer]

Only slightly off topic, buy my hot sauce.  It's an upgrade from store bought.

[CECAA850]

30 minutes ago, dtel's wife said:

Aren't "sponsoring vendors" those who pay to advertise?

I would think so.  Good idea, huh?

[jimjimbo]

34 minutes ago, Chad said:

I'm just sharing data... Why does everything need to have a deep profound meaning behind it? 

I didn't ask for "deep, profound meaning"....just simple reasoning perhaps and an explanation of what the data represents....that's all, not rocket science.

[dtel's wife]

Just now, CECAA850 said:

I would think so.  Good idea, huh?

I would love to see "sponsoring vendors" with a portion or all of the proceeds going towards the Klipsch Museum, which recently received its Letter of Determination from the IRS as an approved non profit entity. 

[CECAA850]

Just now, dtel's wife said:

I would love to see "sponsoring vendors" with a portion or all of the proceeds going towards the Klipsch Museum, which recently received its Letter of Determination from the IRS as an approved non profit entity. 

There you go.

[Jeff Matthews]

Myeh.  All of you have it wrong.

 

Let's say I want to unload some decent money on good speakers.  Where do I start?  Maybe the store.  Maybe the web.  Even if I start at the store, I probably wind up on the web before I finally pull the trigger.  So... I am invariably going to hit this forum.

 

What do I want to see?  Empty rooms?  Silence?  Crickets?  "Who the hell buys these speakers?"

 

Nope!  I want to see activity.  Well... you don't churn a lot of activity about discussing sports and the weather.  I meant speaker talk!  How much speaker talk are you going to suffer wading through if it's not passionate and full of emotion, arguments, threats, tears, laughs, embarrassment...  the whole enchilada.  If people aren't modding and measuring and re-modding and re-measuring, the hype will die.  You've got to promote modding to keep up the debate and experimentation.  Otherwise, it's crickets and lights-out. 

[oldtimer]

Jeff Matthews ladies and gentlemen:  Lord of the Crickets.

[muel]

2 hours ago, Chris A said:

You seem to be under-appreciating the effect that the "flames" have on running off those that are really good (technically knowledgeable and creative at the same time).  I know several people that have left the forum over time due to this general propensity of some making a living here "protecting their products" and dissing Klipsch products (Klipsch products have actually been quite a bit superior: ask me about the specifics in a PM if you want to know).  These knowledgeable people simply get tired and leave. I've lost more than one friend here to this. 

 

It seems to me that there is an assumption that what is being said by Roy has some sort of negative effect on the "enthusiasts" here.  I believe the effect of what he said will have just the opposite and extremely positive effect in attracting new enthusiasts here (perhaps younger ones, too), as well as retaining and re-attracting those without a financial axe to grind but with real technical abilities back. 

 

If it matters at all, I have issues with those that make at least a partial living selling their wares here plus extremely strong and vocal opinions, oftentimes which displays their personal bias and limitations--quite strongly.

 

I know where the web sites are for the third party products.  I would appreciate those owners staying off this forum if they believe that they "have to protect their products here". 

 

I don't know about you but I welcome fresh new faces with something new to share.  As it stands, I believe many potential new members that can share a lot are being driven off due to the current abuses mentioned by Roy, above.

 

Chris

No under appreciation... I just wasn't addressing that... I was addressing what I fear is Roy's wanting to take action to limit our discussion about upgrades/modifications.  I probably just need to wait to hear further what he wants to say.  I certainly agree there has been a lack of civility at times that has caused us to lose valuable contributions here!  I have no problem with people selling their wares here under the current TOS.    As far as behavior by the peddlers and those who seem to love attacking them it would be wonderful if they could all take a step back and work towards a more civil discussion.  I love to learn... it is frustrating when a bunch of noise gets in the way.   Discuss the opposing views calmly and give what evidence you can.  

[Jeff Matthews]

14 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Jeff Matthews ladies and gentlemen:  Lord of the Crickets.

Chirp!

[anarchist]

16 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Myeh.  All of you have it wrong.  If people aren't modding and measuring and re-modding and re-measuring, the hype will die.  You've got to promote modding to keep up the debate and experimentation.  Otherwise, it's crickets and lights-out. 

 

Um, I think I covered this under my analogy to HD which apparently has not been understood by several here.

 

I mean, for Pete's sake, Harley-Davidson allowed - encouraged - modders to take their products, by parts from them, modify the bikes and then resell them in dealerships.  They not only sold more parts, they gained a greater following and actually improved and integrated some of those mods into their own products.  Here there is an uproar if someone says they upgraded their Klipsch speakers from 1979 with a new cross-over - as if there hasn't ever been a technological improvement.

 

Regarding the graphs - I looked and saw that forum membership and interest waned when Amy left and picked up when Craig and Dean started arguing with each other again.   The data may speak to you differently.

 

Lastly, I don't think I have ever read a Klipsch product sucked on this forum.  Some complaints about headphones maybe.  But more often that not, it is someone taking a great speaker and employing a cost no object approach to improving something with it - even if only in their head.

[anarchist]

A final thought. 

 

One would have to be delusional to think there is going to be a great influx of young (or old) females joining this forum and sticking around:  (1) They generally don't care about audio to that degree, (2) they generally don't care to open up speakers and 'tinker' with them, and (3) they want to turn it on and enjoy it not talk about it endlessly.  For Pete's sake, go to the vacuum cleaner forum and you will find it is 95% males (talking about modding their vacuums by the way).  Don't ask.

 

One would have to be delusional to think there is going to be a great influx of young males joining this forum and sticking around: (1) They listen to digital audio so they generally can't tell the difference between a $10K speaker and a boom box in their trunk, (2) they don't have the necessary levels of disposable income, and (3) they have been raised in a commodity based society where everything is disposable.  Many don't have the attention span to appreciate listening to a set of high-end speakers.

 

If Klipsch wants to appeal to these consumers, you may as well eliminate your engineering team, sign a few OEM deals with the Chinese and target the $199 system buyer and/or rely on those kids' parents to buy the system after lots of whining from their kid living in the basement.  You don't need a Klipsch forum, you need a Twitter account and some no-talent celebrities with lots of followers to mention your products.  I can get you started.

 

"Sitting at the pool listening to my new Klipsch outdoor speakers" - include obligatory bikini shot. 

"Partied in Malibu and listened to Kanye on some killer Klipsch speakers." - include obligatory drunk dancing shot.

[jimjimbo]

4 minutes ago, anarchist said:

A final thought. 

 

One would have to be delusional to think there is going to be a great influx of young (or old) females joining this forum and sticking around:  (1) They generally don't care about audio to that degree, (2) they generally don't care to open up speakers and 'tinker' with them, and (3) they want to turn it on and enjoy it not talk about it endlessly.  For Pete's sake, go to the vacuum cleaner forum and you will find it is 95% males (talking about modding their vacuums by the way).  Don't ask.

 

One would have to be delusional to think there is going to be a great influx of young males joining this forum and sticking around: (1) They listen to digital audio so they generally can't tell the difference between a $10K speaker and a boom box in their trunk, (2) they don't have the necessary levels of disposable income, and (3) they have been raised in a commodity based society where everything is disposable.  Many don't have the attention span to appreciate listening to a set of high-end speakers.

 

If Klipsch wants to appeal to these consumers, you may as well eliminate your engineering team, sign a few OEM deals with the Chinese and target the $199 system buyer and/or rely on those kids' parents to buy the system after lots of whining from their kid living in the basement.  You don't need a Klipsch forum, you need a Twitter account and some no-talent celebrities with lots of followers to mention your products.  I can get you started.

 

"Sitting at the pool listening to my new Klipsch outdoor speakers" - include obligatory bikini shot. 

"Partied in Malibu and listened to Kanye on some killer Klipsch speakers." - include obligatory drunk dancing shot.

That's the smartest, most coherent post I've read all day.