PeteVoxx Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 9 minutes ago, pbphoto said: I like the LS2's better between the two. Tough to tell with the recording though. I can hear a stronger bottom-end with the CW3s. That's expected. Midrange sounds fuller on the LS2's. I don't hear anything missing from either. The LS2's could probably benefit from some room treatments and/or play around with positioning. Maybe your LS2's are fine and you're just used to the more forward presentation of the CW3s and your old 78 LS's? I know with my H3's, the midrange is hotter than than on my LS2's. I understand what you're saying, but in-person the difference is very obvious and I doubt you'd say the LS's sound better. That "fuller" midrange you're hearing is probably because part of the midrange is lacking. If they end up being "fine" they're going back. I could get a pair of RF7-II's and 2 pairs of CW3's for the same price. I want to look into getting a decent microphone or maybe use my handheld HD camcorder and do another A/B comparison with higher audio quality so the group can really hear what I'm hearing (or not hearing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon_66 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 hour ago, PeteVoxx said: I understand what you're saying, but in-person the difference is very obvious and I doubt you'd say the LS's sound better. That "fuller" midrange you're hearing is probably because part of the midrange is lacking. If they end up being "fine" they're going back. I could get a pair of RF7-II's and 2 pairs of CW3's for the same price. I want to look into getting a decent microphone or maybe use my handheld HD camcorder and do another A/B comparison with higher audio quality so the group can really hear what I'm hearing (or not hearing). I've been watching this thread from the beginning and I think it's the room.I think you're getting a lot of echoing and cancellation in the lower mid section. In the A/B video, the LaScalas do sound better. I believe that with some nice, white, sound absorption panels, things would be different. I've owned 3 pairs of LaScalas (original), and the only time they sounded "right" was at higher levels with a lot of sub. They're fun and look cool. I found that 95% of the time I used the main system it was at lower volumes. For critical listening, I've moved over to conventional bookshelves with dome tweets that can handle some noise when needed. I have abandoned separates and Audyssey. 2 channel integrated with bass and treble only. Find the right speakers and you can run it almost flat. I ran over the thread a few times and maybe didn't notice if you had changed your source completely. Grab that old receiver in the extra bedroom and hook it up to your phone or and old cd player. Run that and if it doesn't sound great, it's the speakers or the room. Not the networks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 12 minutes ago, Carbon_66 said: I've been watching this thread from the beginning and I think it's the room I think so too. Here's a vid of my Cornwalls in my small junk abode, (near-field) with a 6BQ5/EL84 SEP amp, and a tube Marantz CDP for a source. It's recorded with a junk mobile phone... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteVoxx Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 On 12/29/2016 at 7:27 PM, Schu said: Your networks should look like these They are hardwired so really there is little to be messed with except the individual speaker connections. I still say it's the processing. Schu; Please, if you can and your nets are still out, provide the part number that is checked on the PC board. Mine have two listed with one checked. Thanks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteVoxx Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 3 hours ago, Carbon_66 said: I've been watching this thread from the beginning and I think it's the room.I think you're getting a lot of echoing and cancellation in the lower mid section. In the A/B video, the LaScalas do sound better. I believe that with some nice, white, sound absorption panels, things would be different. I've owned 3 pairs of LaScalas (original), and the only time they sounded "right" was at higher levels with a lot of sub. They're fun and look cool. I found that 95% of the time I used the main system it was at lower volumes. For critical listening, I've moved over to conventional bookshelves with dome tweets that can handle some noise when needed. I have abandoned separates and Audyssey. 2 channel integrated with bass and treble only. Find the right speakers and you can run it almost flat. I ran over the thread a few times and maybe didn't notice if you had changed your source completely. Grab that old receiver in the extra bedroom and hook it up to your phone or and old cd player. Run that and if it doesn't sound great, it's the speakers or the room. Not the networks. I've heard how rooms can affect the sound, but this is not the case. 1) KG2's sound wonderful as do Hersey II's and CW3's. (In person anyhow). I used an old ipad for that recording and the full effect of what's (not) heard isn't as obvious as being here. 2) Even professionally-recorded live, acoustic tracks (e.g. Warren Haynes, Chris Stapleton, etc) played at low volumes sound as though something is "missing" -beyond just attenuated a bit. These LS II's to not reproduce that live sound Klipsch is/was famous for. I mentioned it earlier, but even my Sonos Play5 has a much better and balanced tonal quality to it than the LS II's. Man, this is frustrating. Hope those nets get here soon! I genuinely appreciate all the input and advice I have received from this group!!! Mike: I will listen to your video as soon as I get to my headphones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 2 hours ago, PeteVoxx said: Schu; Please, if you can and your nets are still out, provide the part number that is checked on the PC board. Mine have two listed with one checked. Thanks!!! they are not sorry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 10 hours ago, PeteVoxx said: I'll check Jet Blue fares, LOL I was simply disconnecting the bridge wires connecting the two sets of binding posts. These are designed for bi-amping so wouldn't the required inline resistors be there? I did another amateurish A/B comparison. My pre/pro was on pure direct and bass & treble flat from my Sonos connect. I used Deezer playing FLAC file. Keep in mind the ipad I used is 5 years old so the audio quality is not very good. However, played through a decent pair of headphones the difference is obvious. LSII's https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ulg1g58n2cit26/LS II Demo.mov?dl=0 CW3's https://www.dropbox.com/s/qzq4bdef56414pf/CW3 Demo.mov?dl=0 Hopefully, you'll hear that there's something missing, too. Thanks for listening to me, thru the bad computer speakers and a handheld camera, the LSii's sound much better. I can hear a difference and I hear more detail and depth of image. Of course the CW's are more laid back, but when you sit ON AXIS with a LS you literally get blasted with very sharp crisp sound... and it doesn't help when the room is made from bricks. have you tried listening off axis? to me the LS is not listenable on axis... it's just to strong. frankly, I dont hear anything wrong... in those videos. From the video, I fairly firm in my belief it is set up and equipment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteVoxx Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 56 minutes ago, Schu said: they are not sorry... That pic showed that the "bottom" part number is selected; mine appear to be the same. If you zoom in, you can see two part numbers in the lower right quadrant of the board; above the smaller of the two resistors. Thanks for the pic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteVoxx Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 53 minutes ago, Schu said: to me, thru the bad computer speakers and a handheld camera, the LSii's sound much better. I can hear a difference and I hear more detail and depth of image. Of course the CW's are more laid back, but when you sit ON AXIS with a LS you literally get blasted with very sharp crisp sound... and it doesn't help when the room is made from bricks. have you tried listening off axis? to me the LS is not listenable on axis... it's just to strong. frankly, I dont hear anything wrong... in those videos. From the video, I fairly firm in my belief it is set up and equipment. I kept the volume the same and the LS's are louder as they are more efficient than the CW's... I think that is why you felt the LS's sounded better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzog Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I watched the video as well. Sounds like a lot of echo and reverb from the room. I hope the new networks work for you, but I think the sound may just be the nature of the different horns in a very 'hard' room. The LSII are going to react with that room very differently than the CW or KG2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 15 hours ago, PeteVoxx said: These are designed for bi-amping so wouldn't the required inline resistors be there? NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteVoxx Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Grizzog said: I watched the video as well. Sounds like a lot of echo and reverb from the room. I hope the new networks work for you, but I think the sound may just be the nature of the different horns in a very 'hard' room. The LSII are going to react with that room very differently than the CW or KG2. I hope so, too! I don't think it's the room as I've had other horns in there with no issues whatsoever. Even at low volumes, it's as though part of whatever I'm listening to is missing/extremely flat/thin. I think the reverb and echo you picked up on were the limitations & colorizations brought on by my old iPad with a mic made for picking up music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 When you get the new, Roy tested, networks, please only install one, then compare one LSII with one of the networks you have now with the other LSII with one of the new networks. Then reverse the position of the two LSIIs in the room and compare again. Don't have Audyssey engaged when you do any of this because the Audyssey compensation will be closely matched to your current networks. You can always recalibrate with Audyssey later, if you like the new networks. Did you run your old LSs (78s?) in that same room, in the same positions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteVoxx Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 37 minutes ago, garyrc said: When you get the new, Roy tested, networks, please only install one, then compare one LSII with one of the networks you have now with the other LSII with one of the new networks. Then reverse the position of the two LSIIs in the room and compare again. Don't have Audyssey engaged when you do any of this because the Audyssey compensation will be closely matched to your current networks. You can always recalibrate with Audyssey later, if you like the new networks. Did you run your old LSs (78s?) in that same room, in the same positions? Sounds like a plan. Yes, my '78's were in the same room & position as well as the same equipment. Upon initial set up, they sounded poor which I assumed was Audyssey not configured for the LS II's. I re-ran Audyssey using 5 different listening positions (as with the '78's) but ultimately, the sound remained unchanged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I betcha there is nothing wrong............. The speakers get tested at the end of the line............I assume. Haven't witnessed it. I am guessing nothing is wrong because JWC had a pair and they were the darn driest sounding speakers I ever heard. Nothing like the older lascalas. The new ones are filtered to death and just sounded like crap to me. By the way this was with all JC's high end MAC equipment that made all his other speakers sound fantastic. He eventually got rid of them. Maybe he will see this and comment. I always wondered if you dumped the stock networks and put something simpler in there if it would have helped. I may never know. I even remember bringing some of my own driving equipment to JC's and connecting to those LASII and it didn't sound right at all. Just dry and lifeless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I agree... there are nothing wrong with those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Take the crossovers out of the '78's and load them in the LS II's and see what happens. I think I would have already done that, personally, considering they were there. I see them sounding exactly the same when the new crossovers arrive. Maybe the new crossovers pulled the life right out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 My comments were based on a time when JC and I got together quite often and I heard his LASIIs several times, including connected to some of my own equipment as I mentioned. I know JC gave them a fair shake and worked with them quite a lot before selling them, I don't want to bash Klipsch to badly here but I think the OP is describing their sound perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Are the crossover and driver connections soldered on the LSII's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 No they are not... the leads are hardwired to the network, but the driver connections are press fit. I've gone back the the AL4 from my custom AA because the midst are slightly hot. I will modify the AA and try them again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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