False corners screwed into K horns?

[o0O Bill O0o]

And by locked you mean they'd be too heavy or time consuming to adjust. Right?

That's a win for the lightweight design you went with.

Perhaps some casters/wheels to start, with a Wooden false corner, then lock in place and put in some 'feet.'

[garyrc]

And by locked you mean they'd be too heavy or time consuming to adjust. Right?

That's a win for the lightweight design you went with.

Perhaps some casters/wheels to start, with a Wooden false corner, then lock in place and put in some 'feet.'

But you may not want large casters, wheels, or feet to create a cavity under the Khorns or under the artificial corners.. I don't know how much of a cavity it takes to degrade bass response, but "No cavities" was one of PWK's cardinal rules. He warned that a cavity (what size??) deteriorated bass response in the bottom octave, and had some negative effect two octaves above. The advent of speakers on stands, legs, etc. annoyed him.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Garyrc

[Sancho Panza]

How about Casters under La Scalas?

What will that cause?

I ask because I know someone who has them & I asked if he tried without & he said NO.

But, he does NOT like them. The La Scalas, that is.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Sancho Panza

[garyrc]

How about Casters under La Scalas?

What will that cause?

I ask because I know someone who has them & I asked if he tried without & he said NO.

But, he does NOT like them. The La Scalas, that is.

PWK was against cavities under any speaker. I don't think he mentioned minding flush mounting of the cabinet in a strong wall (sinc the flush mounting itself reinforces the bass by a few dB ... but it might not be as good as the floor coming out from under the speaker). A question I have is how much of a gap constituted a "cavity." Some Klipsch speakers have a indented "toe-kick," but I'm not sure about back then. The Khorn certainly doesn't! It has a target board out in front, where the toe would be likely to kick, instead!

[Sancho Panza]

Maybe if I point him this way...

[o0O Bill O0o]

And by locked you mean they'd be too heavy or time consuming to adjust. Right?

That's a win for the lightweight design you went with.

Perhaps some casters/wheels to start, with a Wooden false corner, then lock in place and put in some 'feet.'

But you may not want large casters, wheels, or feet to create a cavity under the Khorns or under the artificial corners.. I don't know how much of a cavity it takes to degrade bass response, but "No cavities" was one of PWK's cardinal rules. He warned that a cavity (what size??) deteriorated bass response in the bottom octave, and had some negative effect two octaves above. The advent of speakers on stands, legs, etc. annoyed him.

I got a chuckle out your post. I know there is some reason for not having casters or cavities but I couldn't scientifically explain it here. There is a wealth of knowledge on spikes and stands for various components out on the internet and found books.

Someone would have to do a hypothesis test (testing the null that there is no difference between stand mounted tower speakers and non stand mounted tower speakers) I am sure it would address the 2PI and "quasi free air' as a variable that contributes to the differences.

[garyrc]

And by locked you mean they'd be too heavy or time consuming to adjust. Right?

That's a win for the lightweight design you went with.

Perhaps some casters/wheels to start, with a Wooden false corner, then lock in place and put in some 'feet.'

But you may not want large casters, wheels, or feet to create a cavity under the Khorns or under the artificial corners.. I don't know how much of a cavity it takes to degrade bass response, but "No cavities" was one of PWK's cardinal rules. He warned that a cavity (what size??) deteriorated bass response in the bottom octave, and had some negative effect two octaves above. The advent of speakers on stands, legs, etc. annoyed him.

I got a chuckle out your post. I know there is some reason for not having casters or cavities but I couldn't scientifically explain it here. There is a wealth of knowledge on spikes and stands for various components out on the internet and found books.

Someone would have to do a hypothesis test (testing the null that there is no difference between stand mounted tower speakers and non stand mounted tower speakers) I am sure it would address the 2PI and "quasi free air' as a variable that contributes to the differences.

This isn't the hypothesis test you are looking for, but PWK tested one of his speakers -- I forget which one -- on the floor v.s. up on a stool, and found that the stool position ruined the bass response. This was in rebuttal of a review in a column called "Sound Advice" that accused that particular Klipsch speaker of having no bass -- PWK had to put the speaker up on the stool to get the same bad response the reviewer got. He had done other testing re: cavities before that. Someone on the forum may have the references.

I would think the effect of a good sized cavity would depend heavily on the speaker design. Klipsch Heritage speakers were designed to not have a cavity. Some modern direct radiators have jacked-up bass, so sound better when they are on stands and out from the walls (as the designs call for). They often have to have woofers that move back and forth over a greater distance than with horn loaded woofers, so they tend to be prone to frequency modulation distortion, and are less sensitive than Khorns, Jubs, La Scalas and Belle Klipsches. Also, IMO, there may be a trade-off between imaging and good, tight bass, so those who favor imaging may prefer speakers designed for stands or legs, and "out in the room" placement. I prefer Khorns, for dynamics, impact, and clean bass, and also like Belle Klipsches, La Scalas and Cornwalls in the corners in some rooms, and slightly out in the room in other rooms, always directly on the floor.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Garyrc

[joessportster]

I saw a friends false corners and they work great basically he cut a homeplate for the top and bottom, then side walls, which allowed him to just slide the K-Horn in that with no mods or permanent attachments to the speaker, then as a bracing scheme he made braces that attached to the false walls and attached to the speaker using the original grill lugs

You use a little extra wood but you keep the speakers original, and you could also build using screws incase you ever moved the false corners could be taken apart to flat packs

[o0O Bill O0o]

^ Can you source some photos? Thanks.

[garyrc]

I saw a friends false corners and they work great basically he cut a homeplate for the top and bottom, then side walls, which allowed him to just slide the K-Horn in that with no mods or permanent attachments to the speaker, then as a bracing scheme he made braces that attached to the false walls and attached to the speaker using the original grill lugs

You use a little extra wood but you keep the speakers original, and you could also build using screws incase you ever moved the false corners could be taken apart to flat packs

The original false corner in Klipsch's Dope from Hope did not attach to the Khorns in any way. The Khorns were just pushed back into the false corner with a rubber seal, just as they would be pushed into a room corner.

It also had no top or bottom. There are reasons why a homeplate top (reflections and blockage if the top "homeplate" is above the mid and high horns; it would be o.k. if it is like mach-1's TSCM ) or bottom (raising the Khorn a bit off the floor) might conceivably cause problems.

The sides of the false corner were made of 3/4" plywood, studs, with slightly thinner (1/2"?) plywood on the outside, away from the Khorns. I would be prejudiced in favor of 3/4" ply on both the inside and the outside. They extended 4 feet out from the corner they formed. People have said you need 4 feet, and Craig Stark mentioned 5 feet.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Garyrc

[Axz Hout]

x

[Axz Hout]

x

[o0O Bill O0o]

^Thanks what I am talking about! Excellent! THANK YOU!

[davis419b]

I install false backs on all my Khorns. It is very simple to do and attaches only to the 1/2 plywood of the tailboard and grill mounts

Edited March 30, 2014 by davis419b

[ClaudeJ1]

...and the walls still vibrate...

Didn't PK use false corners, and had his K-horns pulled out? This came up before, but I can't remember if I ended up being right or wrong. Anyone remember?

CRS sucks.

Yes, and I spent a few hours listening to them at his home. Best Khorn sound I ever heard, but he did his own recordings.

[Godataloss]

Time to pour some life back into this thread.  Very interesting read.  I too have less than ideal corners where a piece of window trim prevents the tail board from sealing to the back wall by a couple inches.  I don't think I need to go the whole false corner route.  Can I get away with widening the tail board and top and bottom of the bass bin to meet the walls?  Is that flare distance created by the wall critical or is the air seal the critical part?  I'm thinking I might try making it with some modeling clay or moldable weather stripping.

[dtel]

I would think the seal is the most important part, it's what I would work on if it were me.

 

The good part of false corners connected to the speaker is if your room shape and size put the Khorns aiming way to far in front of the listening area. False backs allow toeing the speaker to the right direction without loosing the bass.

[jimjimbo]

Can anyone link to the step by step to installing the backs on the Khorns?  Materials, measurements, screw locations, etc, etc?

[DizRotus]

On 1/28/2016 at 6:55 AM, ClaudeJ1 said:

Best Khorn sound I ever heard, but he did his own recordings.

 

Why am I not shocked by this?

 

FWIW,  42 years ago I used the 1/2” plywood from the shipping crates to enclose the backs of the four Speakerlab SKhorns used in a mobile DJ biz.  Was it as effective as PWK’s Dope From Hope false corners?  Not on your life.  Was it effective and worth the effort?  You bet. 

 

A table saw and tape measure were used to to cut the crates into proper sized panels that were then screwed to the backs of the plywood SKhorns.  It ain’t rocket science.

 

Even with the added backs, the bass was always improved when tucked into proper corners, which were seldom available.  More often, the four were spread out in a gym or cafeteria.  The bass was still tight and palpable.  As I’ve frequently said, one customer, when booking a repeat engagement, asked, “Does that include the drummer?”  It was all I could do to convince her there had not been a drummer at the earlier gig.

[dtel]

On 3/25/2014 at 3:39 PM, Axz Hout said:

Factory TSCM Klipschorn

I know who's porch that is, been there many times.