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I think the bottoms line with me is this....use the correct network network for the design of the speaker. If you are going to use "better" components then for Petes sakes have the freq adjusted. If you don't then you will do the same amount of damage if you use an eq. And no abritarily changing nets does not give you a better sounding speaker. It gives you a different sounding speaker and it is no longer a Klipsch speaker. Damn I feel better.

A White Rabbit told me that I could get a cup of coffee here. Is that true?

Dtel working it at the Watermelon Festival in Hope, AR raising a few $$$ for the Klipsch Museum!

Ahhhh..... There's my man .... Good to hear from ya..... Morning all..... man what a week, crazy busy at the shop and the heat was back. Gonna be in the upper 90's all weekend with a heat index in the 100's. Will be staying inside doing some stuff around the house. The BOSS and I got the home office all fixed up and we are now working on all of our media. All of our CD's and movies were shoved in this old book shelf hutch thing...it was a mess. Mucking through the KAOS I found some old treasures that were long forgotten about. Old VHS tapes of the kids and just other junk that needs to trashed.....It's crazy how much "stuff" we hold on to....I hate just trowing stuff away... I like to find a new home for for things.... Like the stacks of all the VHS Movies.... last weekend we went to Ikea and got two new book shelves with glass doors. I built them last night, they look really nice. I'll load some pics when were all done with the new look. Got a buddy coming over this afternoon....Tyler.... he's a young guy that rolled up to the shop many many years ago in his Acura GSR Integra. He did some engine work and it wasn't running right. I got it all fixed up for him and we have been friends since then. His mom and dad came to the shop one afternoon and asked me if they paid me would I let there son work at the shop... lol lol... They told me all he talks about is me and my shop. I was really flattered.... I declined there offer and they understood. One year Tyler's dad was killed in a work accident. He was a stone mason.... He was working at the college just in town building a arch. he was cutting stone when the saw kicked back. The saw hit him in the neck..... really bad stuff... Tyler was crushed..... I tried to be there as much as I could for him.... Over the years we have been very close.... But life gets in the way of alot of things.... I haven't seen him several months... We text every few weeks.... Last week he told me he wasn't doing very good and wouldn't tell me why.... So last night I called him and told him to get his A$$ over to the house to chill with the "old folk" for awhile.... he was really happy to hear from me... You could just tell in his voice... OK..... coffee all done..... just waiting on my buddy...... a good weekend to all... MKP :-)

nothing of note really happening, been a slow summer. my exile wasn’t just from the forum--it was from everything except work. so, i’ve had a lot of time to be introspective--and i’ve concluded that i’m pretty messed up. But, it’s got me this far, so I gave myself a pay raise and told myself to shut up--and they say money isn’t a motivator (ok, it really isn’t; but, it beats a handshake). was thinking of running for president; but, saw a poster for the Randy Quaid/Gary Busey ticket and figured they’d do a better job than I would. Taking off later this week to Oregon. Going to scout out the location where I’ll set up my empire next Spring. Of course, i developed a toothache and now have to see the dentist two days before I leave--same tooth that i had a root canal last February. Think I’ll tell him to numb me up like it’s nobody’s business and yank the tooth. enjoy your Saturday.

Yes.

Super glad to see ya there Steve!

What up Steve! Great to hear from you/ We decided to come home a day early as our route home goes right through the flooding in Louisiana. I'm glad we did as I've heard that some roads were closed and flooded. I wouldn't have wanted to get caught in that mess. As it was we drove through what seemed to be hurricane type rain for several hours but no road closings or accidents. We figured Saturday would have the same rain, more traffic and higher water so we high tailed it home. Glad to be here.

What's happening Steve...you bring lifr to me and others,,,man

Going to pop a top soon to oldtimer, hoping his situation is improving in some way... Had to give Icehouse a break this time, Stella again in the fridge... Not tasting as good with my schnapps shots... Heresies under the tent...Didn't know they had melons that far north... Bet they are sweet...

Steve, I thought of you when I recently got together with my nephew from Grand Haven. He's 33 and just made CPO in USCG. Glad to hear you gave yourself a raise. Good luck with the tooth.

i think the white rabbit has some white rhino or probably knows where to get some. wait! is The Dude in the White Rabbit’s rolodex? (Don’t answer that on a public forum).

I heard it too. Was in Cleveland at the time.

Again. I disagree. You are compensating for your recordings. The network is an integral part of the speaker design. Where this arbitrary swapping of networks came from I have no idea.

Portable if you have a semi as it is on a trailer. Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Just between us, I wouldn't pay more than $800 for a pair of gloss black indurall spray can Scallas.

Good afternoon my friends............well, nice friendship story there MKP ! ...and I do hope that OT gets things back to normalcy soon! I drive by an number of 'hip roofed' homes every day to and from work, and that 3" EMT pipe is the only way power gets down to the meter. I have seen a bent up one before and always wondered how THAT happened! Anyway, our band played an outdoor show today and it was BRUTAL !! Only in the mid 90ies, but the humid stuff about killed us!! We finished the two hour show without incident, but I felt weak and such during my load out afterward. Shower a second time as soon as I got home and just chillin' with the central ac right now... Dinner soon, then some music and friendship per normal over in RTM this evening.........dropping by Chuck? I was thinking of firing up the magnetics tonight along with some brand new vinyl I will have a freshly opened bottle of RED vino going......should be a nice evening... I hope Steve will come by as well...........we could always use some Brian May ! More soon.... Enjoy the day everyone... ................Gary

Sale Pending!!

Orange and yellow sneakers.

Mike and Roy are sharing wisdom, IMHO. I've always found that fixing problems at their source is the only way to achieve actual and lasting success. Fix the source music tracks, fix the room acoustics, fix loudspeaker directivity issues: then you've actually fixed the problem. All else are band-aids that create their own problems. Chris

fingers of ground meat, bass bin grills complete Matt ♪ ♫ ♪

Are you looking for a pair, Billybob? I'm in Montgomery and am always watching. If you are looking, I will keep an eye out for you.

Sometimes it's best

I believe based on facts and experiences that the Loudspeaker, Recording, and Listening Room Acoustics are the 3 most dominate factors determining the quality of reproduction from a recording. It obvious that to alter/modify any of these 3 dominate factors will change our perception of the reproduction. Since all 3 dominate factors interact with each other to influence our perception it's vital if highest quality of reproduction(including enjoyment) is your goal that each be as accurate and thus neutral as possible and not have one attempting to compensate for the flaws of the other. I believe it is very obvious that to use the loudspeaker/network or room to attempt to compensate for Recordings is extremely limited eq method and a poor path to follow. I believe it is also obvious that two of the network's most vital jobs should be to combine the individual components making up the loudspeaker for the designer's target frequency and polar responses. The designer knowing the loudspeaker will be installed in a listening room has to make certain assumptions that will be factored into his loudspeaker design but ultimately it is obvious that our room's acoustical properties are going to have a great influence on the final reproduced sound experienced and this is where we have the responsibility to take over and provide the most accurate/balanced acoustical path to our listening areas for our chosen loudspeaker design. Ultimately it should become obvious that if poor recordings or room acoustics are a problem the loudspeaker's network can have an audible influence on the perceived sound quality but it is the least effective and most limited tool to attempt compensation for those issues. miketn

A white Rabbit or some white rino? Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Melons too.....

The forte and Chorus are great options as well and the forte are usually a lot easier and cheaper to find then the other models mentioned. My personal favorite speaker is the Chorus II, I think for their size, weight and cost they are the best all around Klipsch speaker ever made.

Relax.... Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

Belles depend heavily on positioning. While it is true that they don't [usually] go down as deep in the bass as Cornwalls, if placed against a wall, or in a corner, they might do fine. My single Belle (center channel) has a little peak at 60 Hz, and declines below that, but Audyssey measures its 3 dB down point at 40 Hz. It holds its own with the flanking Klipschorns. If you like deep bass, they should probably be crossed over to a subwoofer, but as low as possible without creating a hole in the bass response, because they have very clean, tight bass, more so than almost any subwoofer, except for a horn loaded sub.

Just my opinion (having owned Cornwall's and KLF 20's)... As far as "bass extension and power" the KLF's will outperform the Cornwall. Even more so if you have a solid (100+ wpc) amplifier. The dual 10's of the KLF 20 have almost the same area (157 sq/in vs 176 sq/in) of the 15" K33 in the Cornwall and have more excursion capability. The KLF 30's even more so... Though they are not tuned quite as low as the KLF 20's, in exchange for a bit more sensitivity. That big Tractrix midrange horn in the KLF's is also a step up (compared to the Cornwall) as well. Mind you, both are great speakers, and much of the difference will come down to personal opinion, room size and placement. And I'll admit, there was just something really nice (like all the Heritage line) about the big Cornwall cabinets in the Walnut Oil finish. All the other Heritage (LaScala, Belle and Khorn) are a big step up from there. And I wouldn't trade my current LaScala setup for anything... Except for maybe adding a 402 horn on top (JubScala).

Pair of TA-274B

a pair of twelve inch woofers will push much more air than a single fifteen inch woofer can. The KLF30 has a very nice mid horn, a CF4 would be a step up again to an even better horn. For the size they are tough to better.

I'll bet there's a bunch of good lookin melons there....

Right. There is some funny reasoning in this thread. I bought new AK-4 Klipschorns back in 2005 or thereabouts - and I think that lasted about six months before I was running Type A and AA networks. I've built them all, and even tried Al's ESNs with a hundred pounds of copper on them. I suppose it makes sense to some that the guy who's built or heard them all would use the networks that sound the worst.

Completed my first DIY Tube AMP. With the help of Wdecho of course, couldn't have done it without him. I love it! You must build one and try it. I am into this about $500 with these tubes. I couldn't be happier with the sound or how it turned out aesthetically.

That is one of the old Yamaha amps. It might be worth seeing if it is within specs. I took my M 70's for a minor tune up and few years back.

Looks like you made a good choice and avoided the WAF issue at the same time. Congrats and welcome. Chuck

The RC 64 would be the best match for his RP system if the RP center is lacking. The Palladium and Kpt would not match what the RP system. Identical RLC is great for behind a screen but, for people without a dedicated theater, the RC 64 and 64 II are great centers. I know I will not be looking for another center with my Reference speakers.

That all I need to spruce mine.

Am I correct that you have individual Klipsch speakers of different models and you are trying to make pairs out of them for stereo listening? What are you driving them with?

Probably wrong on the comparison unless you aren't feeding both well. The Cornwalls may be a little easier to push in the bass but if you have a good amp, the KLF-30s will out do the Cornwalls. I've had both and currently again have a set of KLF-30s after selling my modified pair to a friend. I need to go look at that Mint pair though since it is rather close, if they are still around., My opinion of course but I have owned both. To me the KLF-30's in my 22x20x9 open to rear room came close to the impact of the Khorns I sold after years. I actually like that some say CWs sound better (nostalgia I think) since they try to power KLF-20s and 30s with amps that have less drive. It keeps the price down compared to Cornwalls. KLFs are still one of the best Klipsch secrets out there (sans 10s- I like 3 ways) though care in feeding is in order.

Reminds me of a story... I got one of those "come see the property and get a free gift" things in the mail, had free time so went to check it out. The guy showing the place was driving a very old but nice car from the 60's all over the rough still unpaved roads of the development... the car was dead silent, not a squeak was heard. I have been in old cars before that even just rolling down a nice paved road the noise from the interior and dash sounded like the bridge of the Enterprise from the original Star Trek... all chirps, beeps, squeaks, boings, etc. I finally asked him how his car was so quiet... He opened the glove box and inside was a butter knife and a dozen packs of paper matches. He said in the months that he had been doing this he had heard lots of squeaks, but for each one he folded a match over the end of the knife tip and pushed the match into the crack, seam, crevasse, or whatever place was the source of the sound... as many as it took to tighten up the offending parts. Over that time he had stuffed hundreds of matches into the dash and interior until it rode quiet. ....... I'm still curious to know if the selections on the K2 and/or Peach for input sensitivity and/or target input impedance got changed during the move.

If that is 2200 CND, it's about 1700 USD, which, if they are in good shape, fully functional, is a pretty good deal. If you have the time and inclination, I'd go listen to them, take some of your favorite music, and make the decision from there. Good luck, and have fun.

I actually used to be a sprinter believe it or not. Made it to nationals by age 12, broke the KY state record, could outrun two different University of Kentucky running backs as a freshman (I went to school with them), was even a walk-on at Murray State until my grades got a little too bad, all with scoliosis.

should I marry the blonde or the brunette? Go listen and make up your own mind. The Belle will cost you more in purchase and in upgrade and you are probably going to want a sub or two with them but you are likely to love the additional efficiency. I would say that you should look at a set of Chorus ll if you have some available power if not and you don't want to purchase a new amplifier or two then stick with what you have a CW2 is a nice speaker and you can upgrade it for less than the cost a of a set of old Belle. Regards moray james..

Mornin' all. It's almost a weekend. Great job on that Klipsch booth at the festival. Gotta start gearing up for a brief vacation to the Durango, CO area next Wed. It's one of the prettiest parts of the state and lots to do from fly fishing to white water. Will let Better Half Unit decide since she's the one who really needs a vacation. Tarheel (Chuck) ... sounds like a successful conclusion to your career as LF's project manager. Congrats. Have a good Friday folks and cheers.

I vote for center channel if you have the room. You might want to check out DeanG's crossover upgrade while you're at it if you haven't already done so. Good luck. I built a pair of cabinets with curved side with all RF7ii parts and it sounded great. Should be a killer cc.

Lol! That would require writing a book. The synopsis would be that I have people that I trust listen. I listen to various cuts of music that I have collected over the years and i also "listen" to what the speaker and measurements tell me.

A pair of Klipsch kg5.2's

well unfortunately for some, cryptic is not good. not necessarily doing it to be cryptic. i really just wonder what you and others will hear that makes one go backward in choosing networks that were by the way, chosen by mr k himself. i will always take pauls word and his thoughts over anyone deciding, without any kind of measuring equipment, other than ears to make the judgement call. not that ears are not an important part of the evaluation chain, but that doing that in an environment that is less than ideal. one thing that i do remember to do is to listen to speakers with different kinds of types of musics in order to see if where the improvement was done is being excited. just so you know, paul in his later years began to understand the advantages of steep filters in order to minimize the overlap band and would tutor me and would want my feedback and how to figure out a way to validate or invalidate to see if this would something we should pursue. shallow slope filters can cause so many lobes to develop between two sections of the speaker. it also allows the devices to tend to operate at extreme ends of their capabilities. i guess that is why intially the hertiage speakers were rated for 100 watts. and deciding to choose expensive, and supposedly better components, can be misleading. if the elements do actually present some sort of advantage, what does that do the freq response curve as compared to the ref curve? i have said repeatedly, that if the freq response is altered then the values need to be adjusted until the freq response is back to the ref curve. THAT is more of a meaningful evaluation. if you dont adjust the freq response, then why not just an eq to system and adjust to flavor. in essence, adding an element that actually does have a parameter that changes the freq response, is the same thing. i have done so much work in this field to just support that someone change something to our klipsch speakers to say... that is an upgrade. the measurements should guide you and should validate what you hear. i still want to hear from others what they hear in the comparison. i am and will always be curious.......