Deang Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 57 minutes ago, ODS123 said: I have spent plenty of time listening to Tube amps ... comparing them, volume matched, with S/S. I don’t think I believe you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubeHiFiNut Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 53 minutes ago, ODS123 said: I have spent plenty of time listening to Tube amps (thought not SE admittedly) comparing them, volume matched, with S/S. I have no interest in them apart from their cool appearance - for example, the Mac MC275. I would love to have an old one, if only to display. I'll use an equalizer if I want to alter the signal. ..Just as I already do with the tone controls on my current amp. What you listen to is up to you - tubes, transistors, whatever. Tone controls, EQs, etc., in your system - again 100% up to you. Where we part company is when you presume to direct new and inexperienced audio hobbyists to a very incomplete view of our hobby. That all amps sound the same. Just subject yourself to this DBT/ABX process. You have decent gear. If you can't hear the differences between your Mac and a cheap amp on an ABX test, maybe it's the test? We should be encouraging new audio enthusiasts to listen to as much gear as they can. Gain experience and learn to trust their ears. If they end up with Cass D or Class A/B or other transistor amp, that's great. If they end up with PP or SET or SEP tube amp, that's great too. BTW, I own all of the above - depends on the speaker. The right tool for the job. In other words, I won't be driving my Martin Logan CLS (first series) with any of my SE amps. But I do drive my Belles with any of my SE amps - and the combination sounds gloriously beautiful. Regarding new audio hobbyists: If their gear helps them emotionally connect to the music they love, they may just adopt our hobby for life. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Tizman said: ClaudeJ1: I wish I had skipped the first part, and went straight to horns 30 years ago. Did that when I was 19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubeHiFiNut Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Did that when I was 19. About the same age as I was when I got my Altec Barcelonas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: You are right about the multiplicity of speakers for HT in terms of dollar investment. For many people it's a long journey of upgrades, which, if you are willing to reach the end of the line, end with ALL HORNS. I should add that my current HT system (not finished assembling). Has 3 TH horn subs, and 7 Multiple Entry Horns, each with 7 drivers for a total of 52 drivers. With room EQ flattening things out, I get super low distortion, constant and controlled directivity, while maintaining "jump out of your chair" dynamics that make horns superior transducers for "lifelike" sound reproduction, even though I had Khorns and a LaScala center for over 30 years, I have evolved to even better horns than what I started with as a teen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, TubeHiFiNut said: About the same age as I was when I got my Altec Barcelonas. Mine were built in my Mom's garage. 20 cubic foot Bass Reflex using Altec Woofers, Altec VOT 500 B horns with 808 drivers. had 4 pairs with about a Kilowatt of amplification. I pre recorded dance music on my Crown Reel to Reel, rented a U-Haul, set it up for big parties of 200-600 people, and got paid to drink beer and dance with the girls...............until Travolta came out with Saturday Night fever and you had to become a DJ with a microphone, so I got into professional photography instead. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I think we need an intervention for Claude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, Deang said: I think we need an intervention for Claude. Nah. He seems fine to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 18 hours ago, Deang said: The argument is that 7-ply Baltic Birch is a better building material, not that things built with MDF are “junk.” I agree Dean, but I count 13 plys in the Baltic birch plywood in my photo above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 9 hours ago, Tizman said: But not ignorant enough to call someone I don’t know ignorant. I apologize, I didnt realize you were quoting ODS, my bad. Shakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmi Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 So far I've learned a few things from this thread: MDF sucks. Plywood sucks Tubes suck Transistors suck Tone controls suck A-B-X comparisons suck not comparing sucks Your opinion sucks My opinion sucks All capacitors sound the same (for Dean) Just wanted to get my 2 cents in before the thread got locked! 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 8 hours ago, Deang said: I think we need an intervention for Claude. When you are right, you are really right!! As a good friend from California told me, after a brief visit: "If I had your Audio Setup, I'd never leave the house." He is now a Klipsch convert. So, I guess the only thing intervention would prevent is contagion at this point in Audio History!! Plus, I do get lots of free beer in the process of doing demos!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 3 hours ago, DizRotus said: I agree Dean, but I count 13 plys in the Baltic birch plywood in my photo above. Yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 On 12/28/2018 at 10:34 AM, ClaudeJ1 said: apples and oranges, since they didn't use 1" Baltic Birch, it was old LS vs. New LS. Still, the bean counters win. Actually, the plywood La Scala II prototypes were just that, not 1st generation La Scalas. I can’t confirm whether 3/4 inch or 1 inch plywood was used in the in the prototypes, but the bass horn dimensions of the LS2 are slightly different from those of the original LS. I’m sure of this, because I have both types, and I’ve measured them both. The bass horn of the LS2 is slightly longer. This is certainly where some of the improved bass reproduction comes from, and the much stiffer MDF horn walls help as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 9 hours ago, TubeHiFiNut said: We should be encouraging new audio enthusiasts to listen to as much gear as they can. Gain experience and learn to trust their ears. If they end up with Class D or Class A/B or other transistor amp, that's great. If they end up with PP or SET or SEP tube amp, that's great too. I was always taught you write to your audience. You do realize, don't you, that a newbie would not understand a single bit of your last sentence? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 hours ago, kevinmi said: So far I've learned a few things from this thread: MDF sucks. Plywood sucks Tubes suck Transistors suck Tone controls suck A-B-X comparisons suck not comparing sucks Your opinion sucks My opinion sucks All capacitors sound the same (for Dean) Just wanted to get my 2 cents in before the thread got locked! === a very concise overview. Do you write for Cliff Notes —? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 hours ago, kevinmi said: So far I've learned a few things from this thread: MDF sucks. Plywood sucks Tubes suck Transistors suck Tone controls suck A-B-X comparisons suck not comparing sucks Your opinion sucks My opinion sucks All capacitors sound the same (for Dean) Just wanted to get my 2 cents in before the thread got locked! Fantastic summary. Stick around for more (or possibly not as you said). This isn't too bad yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubeHiFiNut Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Shakeydeal said: I apologize, I didnt realize you were quoting ODS, my bad. Shakey I undoubtedly contributed to the confusion by copying Tizman's quote intead of going back through the whole thread to find the original. My apologies to both @Tizman and @Shakeydeal for the confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, pzannucci said: Fantastic summary. Stick around for more (or possibly not as you said). This isn't too bad yet. No one has thrown up a ridiculous popcorn eating GIF yet. Can't be that bad. Just dragging on MDF more than I would have ever thought was possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Westcoastdrums said: No one has thrown up a ridiculous popcorn eating GIF yet. Can't be that bad. Just dragging on MDF more than I would have ever thought was possible. True, Nothing wrong with MDF if done properly. Also has different frequency characteristics compared to ply. If you aren't in the habit of dropping your speakers from 3 feet in the air, it is quite good. I've built a lot of speakers, screwed and glued with proper bracing as should always be done, enclosures can be VERY tough. VERY heavy too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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