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Rewiring Klipschorns

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1 hour ago, dwilawyer said:

From the Stereophile article previously linked:

 

But what Fulton was doing with his loudspeakers struck a responsive chord in many audiophiles. The 80 rapidly became one of the most popular small speaker systems among listeners who were aware of its existence and attuned to the sound of live music. Interestingly but not surprisingly, it had little appeal for listeners with no associations of live-music experience, but the reactions of those who did were positive and, eventually, fiercely loyal. The FMI 80 touched them in a way no other speaker system had, and when FMI announced other, costlier speakers, there was a ready-made market of 80 owners prepared to assume that the bigger FMIs would be just as musical as the 80 but with more highs and lows.

When we reviewed the 80, we did find a couple of relatively minor things to complain about. (Although one of them was not the 12kHz peak that another reviewer claimed to have heard.) And Mr. Fulton responded by redesigning the speaker. He is still redesigning it, on what now appears to be a 4-month cycle.

And when other FMI models started appearing, those too became subject to an endless series of modifications until it became obvious to us that, until we could go from typewriter to post office with the magazine in a month or less, it was virtually a waste of time to review FMI's speakers because they were changing faster than we were publishing. Thus, by the time a report got in print, the speaker reviewed had more often than not already been obsoleted by a later, "improved" version.


Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/fulton-musical-industries-model-80-j-modular-loudspeakers-fmi-cult#pmFAGhpBuQJ7FPkY.99

 

Just one mod away!

 

 

 

 

How about this :

 

The 80 rapidly became one of the most popular small speaker systems among listeners who were aware of its existence and attuned to the sound of live music.  

 

 

 

It had little appeal for listeners with no associations of live-music experience, but the reactions of those who did were positive and, eventually, fiercely loyal. The FMI 80 touched them in a way no other speaker system had, "

 

Travis, I was there !!.   Peerless stopped making the lovely alnico 2 1/4 inch driver,  ( a pair used as the mids - top-end of each FMI 80 ), and Robert had to find a solution to find a part-substitute  for the Peerless driver,  which had no current equal at that time.  

 

Capish ??

 

Jeffrey 

 

Now you know whats behind the scenes. 

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I think some you guys are being a bit rough on Jeffrey. I disagree with his approach and conclusions, but he is entitled to his opinion. In many ways I think he is rather sincere in his perspective and probably not all that different than some of the folks around here who are enamored with fancy and uber expensive capacitors etc. I don't think these folks are trolls. They seem to really believe in this stuff. I think the Forum has enough room for all of them (footnote 1).

 

Footnote 1: That said, I still think this approach leads some people away from making real improvements that are based on science and engineering. However, that is their choice (and loss). 

 

Good luck,

-Tom

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2 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

from the time I came home from the hospital, and my Mom was nursing me to an original ALTEC 604

 

gerber baby.jpg

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1 hour ago, mike stehr said:

 

gerber baby.jpg

 

Very cool Mike, thanks. 

 

Seven and a fraction decades later, .........................see this :

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/185504-montana-directly-coupled-2a3-amps-versus-missouri-kt88s-in-sepentode-zero-nfb/&tab=comments#comment-2408890

 

 

 

Jeffrey Medwin 

 

 

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All this info about wires made me want to pull one of my 15" woofers and measure the thickness of the voice coil wire.

 

The wide side.

IMG_5723.jpg.01576949fd60ac5bc8314a6da5076064.jpg

 

and the flat dimension of the rectangular, edge wound voice coil wire.

 

IMG_5719.jpg.a61f15c8655ce39f50e823296ac380ed.jpg

 

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Yea and I want to measure all the wires from Hoover Dam to my house. Are they all up to spec? And those transformer thingys, are they OK?

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2 hours ago, DizRotus said:

 

 

Travis-

 

Please put us out of our misery!  This forum has standards like the other audio forums that yanked the welcome mat.

 

Reminds me of that Paul McCartney song, Ban[ne]d On The Run.

Surprised you haven't asked to ban the person who occasionally misplaces an apostrophe......

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31 minutes ago, Khornukopia said:

All this info about wires made me want to pull one of my 15" woofers and measure the thickness of the voice coil wire.

 

The wide side.

IMG_5723.jpg.01576949fd60ac5bc8314a6da5076064.jpg

 

and the flat dimension of the rectangular, edge wound voice coil wire.

 

IMG_5719.jpg.a61f15c8655ce39f50e823296ac380ed.jpg

 

 

You are deluding yourself and totally misleading the novices here.  Your reasoning for posting this is 100% FAULTY, for all the system and amp building I have been doing, particularly over the last decade.  

 

The windings in a transformer, choke, or a voice coil HAS to be a certain gauge, fixed.  But getting ENERGY in and out of that unit, is GREATLY enhanced by using well thought out wiring, often times larger than whats in the unit.  Its lead modification, I do it in my builds, with excellent results,  ALL the time, and it is highly advantageous.  .  Particularly on an entire SYSTEM basis. 

 

Jeffrey Medwin

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18 minutes ago, babadono said:

Yea and I want to measure all the wires from Hoover Dam to my house. Are they all up to spec? And those transformer thingys, are they OK?

 

 

Great post, we need to make the wire from Hoover Dam the same size as our voice coil wires, any E.E. will know that !!

 

 

Jeff 

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27 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

misplaces an apostrophe......

Ah  the crux of the biscuit:)

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36 minutes ago, Khornukopia said:

All this info about wires made me want to pull one of my 15" woofers and measure the thickness of the voice coil wire.

 

6 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

Your reasoning for posting this is 100% FAULTY,

 

That could be true, considering that I was watching some meteors at 2 A.M. when the idea of measuring my voice coil wire came to mind.

 

I also understand that the voice coil wire is engineered to have a certain resistance. It is also true that I would not want my speaker connection wire to add 4 ohms to the amp/speaker circuit. I use 12 ga and 14 ga speaker wires to my bi-amped Klipschorns.

 

20 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

You are deluding yourself and totally misleading the novices here.

 

I certainly would not want to mislead any novices with any outrageous implications.

 

Have a nice day.

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37 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

 

You are deluding yourself and totally misleading the novices here.  Your reasoning for posting this is 100% FAULTY, for all the system and amp building I have been doing, particularly over the last decade.  

 

The windings in a transformer, choke, or a voice coil HAS to be a certain gauge, fixed.  But getting ENERGY in and out of that unit, is GREATLY enhanced by using well thought out wiring, often times larger than whats in the unit.  Its lead modification, I do it in my builds, with excellent results,  ALL the time, and it is highly advantageous.  .  Particularly on an entire SYSTEM basis. 

 

Jeffrey Medwin

 

If a choke or transformer has a winding constructed from, say, 100 feet of 24 AWG wire, and you modify the last 2 inches of each end of that wire by replacing it with, say 16 AWG wire, then the  percentage effect of your modification on the current carrying properties of the winding will be absolutely negligible.  If you leave 99.7% of the wire (the part you can't get at because it is inside the transformer) unchanged, and modify only the little bits that stick out of the transformer, then you will have no worthwhile improvement at all.

 

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I find it funny that the Fulton Musical Industries website, which is a supposed tribute to the "ideas" of Fulton is under construction and apparently has been for years now.  I guess not enough solid concrete information about anything could be found to put within the multiple tabs on the website other than a short bigraphy.  From what I've read, he was far better a "salesman" than a businessman which would explain why none of his products really lasted long nor did the company continue after he died.  Maybe if he wouldn't have kept revising stuff on, what was mentioned, a 4 month schedule, the company would have prospered.

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3 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

... some of the folks around here who are enamored with fancy and uber expensive capacitors ...

What's a "fancy" capacitor? Or, what makes a capacitor "fancy"?

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1 hour ago, Backfire said:

If you leave 99.7% of the wire (the part you can't get at because it is inside the transformer) unchanged, and modify only the little bits that stick out of the transformer, then you will have no worthwhile improvement at all.

 

You do if you use a quarter spool of solder on each solder joint.

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15 minutes ago, Deang said:

 

You do if you use a quarter spool of solder on each solder joint.

 

 

And you tightly tie the capacitors on to a crossover board with multiple tie wraps,  intersecting  and disturbing their energy paths.   And also maybe have cap bodies touch each other.

 

Deang, two wrongs don't make a right. 

 

Why not bury the hatchet,  ( like I PM ed you, a couple months ago ), quit the snide remarks, henceforth.  Its no joy to act at that level.

 

Jeff Medwin

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9 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

intersecting  and disturbing their energy paths. 

 

I never saw any photos where he'd drilled a hole through a capacitor to string it on a zip tie.  The only "energy path" is through the media between the foils/plates in any capacitor I've ever seen.  And I've seen many different types through the years.  Even had a huge variable capacitor out of an archaic tubed tuner once...

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Yes. I cross the streams. I'm sorry.

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1 hour ago, Deang said:

Yes. I cross the streams.

You need to see a urologist. 

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Nothing a zip tie can't fix.

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