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Heritage Jubilee in a Small Room – Three Months in


MMurg
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7 hours ago, MMurg said:

 

Then you have obviously not heard the new Jubilee.  With one large CD horn covering from 340 Hz to 20 kHz, what needs to integrate?  The speaker acts almost like a point source.  You can get quite close to the Jubilee, and it still sounds like one integrated sound source.  The Jubilee is nothing like the Khorn in the regard.


You are right, I haven’t heard anything larger than a khorn, so I defer to you guys that have. 

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53 minutes ago, Islander said:

 

How far do you feel that you need to be from your La Scala IIs before you feel that their three drivers integrate properly?  Coytee has owned numerous big Klipsch speakers, including UG Jubilees.  He did a check of minimum listening distances, and found that he had to be quite far from Klipschorns, nearly 20 feet/6 metres, but the Jubilees came together at a much closer distance, under 10 feet/3 metres, if memory serves.


 I’m sitting about 14ft, 3”

away, as measured from the tweeter to my ear. I’ve tried closer but this has sounded the best to me.

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Islander is right.  Quite by accident, I noticed that at the base of my stairs (I think it was 30' from the Khorns) the speakers sounded absolutely out of this world good.  There was no distinct distance where it went from sounding good to outstanding but you could easily tell a difference when 10' away verses 30'.  (open room with no walls)

 

Yanked Khorns out, slapped Jubilee's in went to that same 30' spot to hear the glory....and was befuddled that it didn't sound any better at 30' than it did at say, 10'.  Then it hit me....  the 3-way Khorn needed that distance to gel into a single sound and the Jubilee came together somewhere around 7-10 feet so now, I can actually be in the room with them with the good sound, and not listening further away.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Coytee said:

Islander is right.  Quite by accident, I noticed that at the base of my stairs (I think it was 30' from the Khorns) the speakers sounded absolutely out of this world good.  There was no distinct distance where it went from sounding good to outstanding but you could easily tell a difference when 10' away verses 30'.  (open room with no walls)

 

I believe what you experienced at 30’ was speaker/room interaction and not loudspeaker driver integration since you are in the extreme far field in your room at that distance. Even at 10’ distance the speaker/room interaction is still very strong and can influence a persons perception of sound quality.

 

I would suggest if a person wants to listen for when the loudspeaker’s drivers integrations occurs that they may want to listen in an open outside space so that it isn’t masked by a room’s boundary interactions and reflections with the loudspeaker/listening positions.

 

miketn

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3 hours ago, Coytee said:

Yanked Khorns out, slapped Jubilee's in went to that same 30' spot to hear the glory....and was befuddled that it didn't sound any better at 30' than it did at say, 10'.  Then it hit me....  the 3-way Khorn needed that distance to gel into a single sound and the Jubilee came together somewhere around 7-10 feet so now, I can actually be in the room with them with the good sound, and not listening further away.

 

Keep in mind that the Polars of the Jubilee are much more consistent across the frequency spectrum versus the Klipschorn and this creates a more consistent interaction with the room boundary reflections versus the Klipschorn when placed in the same location. 

 

miketn

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On 11/5/2022 at 4:34 AM, Shakeydeal said:

It’s not just the three way design of the khorn. It’s also the extreme angle that they end up in most moderately sized rooms. I think that plays a part too.

 

Have you noticed if many Khorn owners have them in rooms that don’t have proper “Khorn corners” that allow them to fit tight into the corners and let them sit at that 45-degree angle into the room?  I don’t know; I’m just asking.  I’ve only ever once seen a Khorn, in a vintage hi-fi shop, in the middle of a very crowded room, cluttered with all kinds of speakers.  For the interest of my Forum brother/neighbour, MC39693, it was Q-Lectronic’s old shop, before they moved to their current roomier and brighter shop on Douglas Street.

 

I couldn’t hear it properly, and I wasn’t too concerned anyway, because I’d just bought my first La Scalas a month or two earlier, and was in mid-honeymoon with them, just starting to “mod” them with new caps (they were 32 years old at the time).  However, after that, I noticed that the sweet spot seemed really narrow.  That didn’t seem surprising, because they were close to either side of my old CRT TV, less than 1.5 m/5 feet apart.

 

A couple of months later, psg, a Forum member from Eastern Quebec, was in town for a scientific conference (he’s a scientist), and was free for a couple of hours one afternoon.  He took one look at the speakers and said, “Those have got to go over to that other wall (the long wall to the left of me), today!” 

 

That sounded logical, but I didn’t have enough speaker wire in stock, so we listened to records instead.  It was a good visit.  A few months later, once I got a lot of Karma Kable, I got my buddy and his gf to come over, and we rotated the room’s floor plan 90 degrees to the left.

 

This called for some muscle, especially the moving of the 35” 180-pound CRT TV.  However, we got it done, and the speakers went from being 5 ft/1.5 metres apart to being about 12 feet/4.6 metres apart, and from nearly straight ahead to toed in about 35 degrees.  That was in the Spring of 2007.  Since then, I turned the speakers this way and that, which was easy with the flat-bottomed 1970s La Scala.  Once I got the Noughties (2007) La Scala IIs in 2013, it was more work and less fun to turn the speakers, and the sweet spot was still too narrow.  It was a bit later that I realized that what I had were kind of Super-Industrial Split JubScalas, since the tweeters were now capable of being turned any way I liked, without bothering the bass cabinets.  As well, the 7 degree forward tilt of the tweeters compensates to some degree for their extra height on top of the HF cabinets, allowing the two drivers to come together at a closer distance.

 

Finally, a couple of months ago, I read an old Dope From Hope from 1951, which explained that for best stereo effect, working in the greatest possible area of the room, the speakers should be aimed at the opposite corners of the room.  On a table at the side of the room is my handy Canadian Tire laser level, which is really handy for levelling pictures and aiming speakers, and the tweeters were soon aimed just as PWK intended.  That’s one of the cool things with the JubScalas:  the tweeters and bases are just sitting on top of the LS2 cabinets, so it’s easy to rotate them to whichever direction you like.

 

Aiming the tweeters (or complete speakers, for that matter) at the opposite corners of the room causes the speaker axes to cross a bit in front of the MLP.  For years, I’d heard a few guys rave about this, but I always thought it would look too extreme, and it sort of does but it’s worth it. To see my reaction when I rolled up the volume, read on.

 

Well, holy crap!  Now the sweet spot is more than twice as wide as it’s ever been, and is the overall sound is more “right”.

 

Back on track!  Yes, driver integration, in the effort to simulate a point source, is a worthwhile quest.  Was it Chris A who lowered his Jubilees’ tweeters down over the bass cabinets, with great results?  He was really impressed with how they sound.  ”Major breakthrough” was the kind of thing he was saying.  He seemed well pleased.  It seems that we can only focus on one thing at a time.  Us regular mortals, that is...

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JubScala has always struck  me as a brilliant idea , a great   horn at a good   height  , mated with the Lascala bass bin , which is excellent ,( just roles off a little early). It’s a speaker that I would be   interested  in hearing  . Agree about the Khorns not always fitted into corners properly, I’ve had mine for a long time ,  I love them but, they’re  not  so flexible in their positioning , I eventually built a dedicated room for them .🤓

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On 11/4/2022 at 6:00 AM, Islander said:

For what it's worth, my JubScalas are about 12 feet apart, and I sit roughly 12 feet from them.  My reclining sofa is placed so that my head is about one-third of the distance from the back wall to the front wall.  That should be ideal, but I'm sure that even so, MMurg's system sounds way better than mine.

My Super MWM's are 16' center to center and most choose to listen at around 12' to 14' away. Amazing fidelity and presence you can never have with direct radiator speakers. Of course they sound good out in an open field too from 90' or more away. Big horns done right just flat out beat everything else.

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21 hours ago, Islander said:

Have you noticed that many Khorn owners have them in rooms that don’t have proper “Khorn corners” that allow them to fit tight into the corners and let them sit at that 45-degree angle into the room?

I thought this was an interesting pic. The first khorns I ever heard were far out from the corners and they rocked!

 

 

Screenshot_20221022-004400_Firefox~2.jpg

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  • 1 month later...
On 10/31/2022 at 6:10 PM, MMurg said:

I have La Scala AL5 as the surrounds in this setup in the corners behind the couch.  In that position, they are a little too low...  So, I purchased two platforms to raise them up about six inches.

Did the risers help?

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47 minutes ago, Khornukopia said:

Did the risers help?

 

Yes, they helped a great deal.  The risers got the HF cabinets to ear height.  That put the MF/HF horns on-axis vertically with my listening position.  The rear La Scala now sound better, and the rear soundstage height seems correct.  It was a larger improvement than I was expecting.  I'm hearing things I've never noticed before in the rear channels of some multichannel recordings.  On one live jazz SACD the echo of the upfront instruments off the back wall of the club is noticeable and very realistic.  It was definitely worth the expense/effort.  (Yes, I fixed the speaker cable after taking the pictures.  I needed to free some wire slack behind the equipment rack first.)

PXL_20221108_170047893 (Large).jpg

PXL_20221109_221008688 (Large).jpg

PXL_20221109_221018336 (Large).jpg

PXL_20221109_233750023.MP (Large).jpg

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If you want to run speaker wire along the bases of your walls and make them less noticeable, a good way to go is to use split wire loom.  This is lightweight corrugated plastic tubing that’s split along its length so that it can easily be slid over wires.  It comes in a variety of sizes and colours.  You’ll likely find some under the hood of your car, and that will be black.

 

In most rooms at home, the white or beige wire loom is better.  I use it to hide the wires that run around one side of the room to the surround speakers.  I picked a size that easily fit the three 12 gauge wires that I was using.  The corrugated white plastic tubing is visible, of course, but since it’s the same colour as the baseboards, it’s barely noticeable.  I also use it in the front of the room, in spots where a black or dark-coloured wire reaches across a gap.  Sliding a length of white plastic tubing over it lets it sort of blend into the off-white wall behind it.

 

This is the stuff I'm talking about.  It's available at most auto supply shops, maybe car audio shops, and online.  As you can see, it comes in a variety of colours and sizes.  1/2" and 3/4" are likely the most useful sizes for covering home audio cables of all sorts.

 

https://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html

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On 11/5/2022 at 6:47 AM, Coytee said:

Islander is right.  Quite by accident, I noticed that at the base of my stairs (I think it was 30' from the Khorns) the speakers sounded absolutely out of this world good.  There was no distinct distance where it went from sounding good to outstanding but you could easily tell a difference when 10' away verses 30'.  (open room with no walls)

 

Yanked Khorns out, slapped Jubilee's in went to that same 30' spot to hear the glory....and was befuddled that it didn't sound any better at 30' than it did at say, 10'.  Then it hit me....  the 3-way Khorn needed that distance to gel into a single sound and the Jubilee came together somewhere around 7-10 feet so now, I can actually be in the room with them with the good sound, and not listening further away.

 

 

Great observation  I concur

 

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20 hours ago, Islander said:

If you want to run speaker wire along the bases of your walls and make them less noticeable, a good way to go is to use split wire loom....

Or eliminate wires altogether for the rears by using a wireless transmitter and receivers.

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On 1/11/2023 at 1:48 PM, Quad Khorns said:

Or eliminate wires altogether for the rears by using a wireless transmitter and receivers.

I hope some poor soul does not wander through here and fails to understand your comment was meant in jest. 

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31 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

I hope some poor soul does not wander through here and fails to understand your comment was meant in jest. 

My comment wasn't meant in jest... I will save you time in responding and a debate you can't win, by saying I have done it and it works great.

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