Solar Panel Discussion...

[pallpoul]

12 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

If someone wants an EV for the sake of having an EV it’s one thing. But don’t fool yourself that you are “saving the planet” or some such nonsense. There’s nothing “green” about it.

I am not fooling myself that I am saving the planet, I am just saving few hundred dollars per month, while getting used to what's coming in the future. 

My goal is, to be off the grid totally in few years.

If enough people aim for the same goal, that would be a planet saving plan.

[YK Thom]

We have a number of people using them up here, how it works I have no idea as we have very short daylight hours in the winter. It's mostly people living on houseboats and some cabins. Usually combined with a generator and a small wind genny.

[rebuy]

They Said, you know who they are,

that we can off The Grid in a little over 200 years, if then.

[OO1]

48 minutes ago, Bubo said:

Who is making them, are they selling stock ?

I've seen them on sale on Amazon , but I would not trust the current for sale product yet  ,  since the long term durability tests are  ongoing  

 

[rebuy]

You cannot get rid of petroleum.

Without Petrol you cannot make Klipsch Speakers.

Then what cha' gonna do?

 

[rebuy]

On 11/17/2022 at 5:54 PM, richieb said:

See what the neighbors think of a wind turbine in your yard - show ‘em you’re committed to the cause - 🌬

Bolt one on yer car too.

[Tom05]

15 hours ago, captainbeefheart said:

 

You could cover every inch of land in the USA with solar panels and it wouldn't come close to meeting our demands for energy.

 

 

There is nothing technical or convincing about this  argument  , and it’s particularly weak coming   from an electrical engineer  . According to Elon Musk ,  a 100 mile x 100 mile grid of  solar panels    (10,000 sq miles) would be sufficient to supply the US of all its electrical needs , argue with Elon Musk .

[Bubo]

15 hours ago, pallpoul said:

I am not fooling myself that I am saving the planet, I am just saving few hundred dollars per month, while getting used to what's coming in the future. 

My goal is, to be off the grid totally in few years.

If enough people aim for the same goal, that would be a planet saving plan.

The shocker for many people who purchased Solar with subsidies, is when the Grid goes down, their Solar shuts down.

 

The agreement for selling to the Utility your surplus electricity, requires that your system shuts down when the grid is down.

So it's not a substitute nor a back-up.

 

I suspect that this is why the fellow in OK, that I mentioned, did his own build to power his AC and took no subsidies nor sold to the grid.

I think he used a few truck batteries with his inverter to smooth things out.

 

I have seen similar set ups using water powered generation, some with recycled NZ washing machines rewired, that power the house with some batteries. No reason you couldn't heat or freeze a block of water or cement to maintain temp at night.

 

Don't thermal houses have thick cement floors that are heated by direct sunlight in daytime so they stay warm at night. Huge S windows, other directions have walls covered with dirt and sod for thermal coupling to the earth. Totally passive.

 

I think I would still want a good wood-coal stove for the really cold and dangerous times of year. And a NG or diesel back up generator.  you can't be too cautious when it comes to freezing to death.

[Bubo]

7 minutes ago, newworld said:

I call bs on that. that wouldn't be enough for just the grow lights int he western part of the us. 1000 watt grow light 12 hrs a day at several hundred thousand lights. In Maine all hydro damns were take out and now we buy elec. Ppl need to wake up to whats going on here. soon you will be limited heavily and barely keep your food cool. let alone heat your home. Their plan is for you to own nothing and be happy so buckle up butter cups.

 

Current solar cells lose efficiency every year

They are not at break even before their useful life expires

No subsidies, no sales.

[oldtimer]

Either/or

All or nothing

Pigeon holed minds tend towards two dimensional thinking.  Throw in the ubiquitous "they" and continue down the path of illogic.  Intelligent communities are already using a variety of sources in combination to great effect.  

[billybob]

Well meaning (?) electrical concerns lobbying hard with their profits to control solar, tolerating only to launch a campaign of command and control. PSCs around the country accommodating their desires. Profits over people.

Another example cable versus satellite. It was not an easy fight. 

There will be changes, inspired primarily by the end user's saying, we are not going to take it. 

HOAs with their strict dictates will have to conceed, just like cable. Usually requires  anti- monopoly policies. All of these entities desiring control, will inevitably bend or break.

 

[richieb]

Billy, Billy, Billy - “ profits over people “. Where did you dream up such nonsense 😂🤔

[Seadoc]

The half-life of Iodine in spent fuel rods is only 8 days.  Watch out for the Cesium, and friends, though.  

[billybob]

2 hours ago, newworld said:

I'm still wondering why anybody would need a 50k system for a house? Or even a 20k system!

Or 80K, or who would have the nerve to suggest it.

[captainbeefheart]

17 hours ago, Tom05 said:

There is nothing technical or convincing about this  argument  , and it’s particularly weak coming   from an electrical engineer  . According to Elon Musk ,  a 100 mile x 100 mile grid of  solar panels    (10,000 sq miles) would be sufficient to supply the US of all its electrical needs , argue with Elon Musk .

 

 

 

That PCmag article is a pipe dream. It's a theoretical number in a perfect situation with all panels producing it's 100% full rated output and zero losses. Elon is a smart guy no doubt but that article is just a poster child trying to sell something that will never work. It sounds nice, and can certainly help with energy production but at best it may become enough to cover half the demand we require. In 2021 we averaged 3.9 trillion kWh per day.

 

Once you crunch the actual real numbers you end up at least doubling the area "technically required" and the system becomes massive. Then we are going to replace 200 square miles of panels and another 200 square miles of batteries every 5 years or so? The longer they are in service they produce less power, this increases the original square miles even more to account for those losses over time. That or replace them which is insane. It's never going to work and there must be a better way.

 

At best it will be an addition to the system, maybe at best cover 50% our demand needs which is great.  But to say we will one day run completely off solar is never going to happen.

[Marvel]

10 hours ago, Bubo said:

Don't thermal houses have thick cement floors that are heated by direct sunlight in daytime so they stay warm at night. Huge S windows, other directions have walls covered with dirt and sod for thermal coupling to the earth. Totally passive.

We had friends who built their own house on the west side of Madison, WI... 12in. outside walls, living room floor was a thick slab of concrete with slate on top. Triple glazed on the wall facing the sun. When it was -10 outside, it was toasty warm inside. They had a wood stove for periods when they had a few cloudy days. No fans inside to move the air. There were vents to the upstairs and cool air returned down the stairway (as I recall).

[Bubo]

This works for me

HELIOS is the architect's own home which evolved over time from a passive solar home, to a home which also reduced its hot water needs, to a home with reduced heating and cooling energy loads, and finally to a net zero energy home.   Helios was first constructed in 1984 as a passive solar home with the intent of employing proper building orientation, partial earth sheltering, solar gain through a two story sunspace and south facing windows, and building mass to reduce the heating load in rural northwestern New Jersey. This design resulted in a home which consumed only 35% of the energy needed for space heating a comparable conventional home.   In 1998 a solar hot water system was added to provide 65% of the hot water needs. With the advent of high efficiency mini-ductless split-system heat pumps, this equipment was installed over time to replace the existing heating systems in the home. When solar photovoltaic (PV) systems became more affordable in 2008, a 4.7 KW (DC) system was installed, and with further economies in solar PV an additional 4.1 KW (DC) system was installed in 2015.  The result is a net-zero energy home which has been carefully monitored over a full year of actual use to verify that all energy for space heating, cooling, hot water, and plug loads is provided by solar energy.  The only energy not yet covered is the electricity needed to charge the owner's electric car.  When community solar is permitted in New Jersey the owner plans to purchase the necessary energy from a community system to also satisfy the electric vehicle.

https://nesea.org/project-case-study/helios-passive-active-solar-home-net-zero-energy/general

[Invidiosulus]

2 hours ago, Marvel said:

We had friends who built their own house on the west side of Madison, WI... 12in. outside walls, living room floor was a thick slab of concrete with slate on top. Triple clazed on the wall facing the sun. When it was -10 outside, it was toasty warm inside. They had a wood stove for periods when they had a few cloudy days. No fans inside to move the air. There were vents to the upstairs and cool air returned down the stairway (as I recall).

Didn’t they also have some transparent columns filled with dyed water that would absorb heat from the sunlight during the day?

The built in ship bunk style beds in the kid’s  rooms upstairs were great as well but my favorite was the swing set and zip line built out of surplus utility poles.

[Marvel]

46 minutes ago, Invidiosulus said:

Didn’t they also have some transparent columns filled with dyed water that would absorb heat from the sunlight during the day?

The built in ship bunk style beds in the kid’s  rooms upstairs were great as well but my favorite was the swing set and zip line built out of surplus utility poles.

Yes, they added two large water columns for thermal storage in the later addition to the house.

[Gilbert]

On 11/17/2022 at 3:48 PM, Schu said:

SOLAR PANEL:

So I just went thru the SOLAR schpeel here at the house because I was understandably curious.

 

it all sounded wonderful and so... 'responsible'.

 

It wasn't as expensive and I thought it was going to be, but I have some serious questions.

 

Our quote was only $21k all in @ 3.99% for 20 years... But when I priced the panels out myself and it only came to $4,000 (leaving $17k). Surely I am not going to do the job myself and according to the sales person, it's a four hour job and while there some other costs for wiring and an inverter (I will allot another 3$k) that leaves $14k... that's like $3500hr in labor.

 

So lets say, I am paying $100 a month for the system over 20 years, and my monthly payment for wired electricity is $100-$140 (summertime) a month over the same time period, it is basically a wash in terms of capital outlay, and it appears to me that I am paying $21,000 over 20 years for some over priced photovoltaic hardware to sit on my roof.

This current generation technology is getting older and older and is probably already outdated before its bolted to my roof.

 

At this point I don't think this is for me... I am not that 'energy conscience'.

 

For that kind of coin you can go buy a pair of dual axis trackers, each with 42 PV modules. Significantly more efficient than roof mount systems.