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La Scala Vs. Klipschorn


Tweek
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Hi, Dave.

Only the invention or processes used to make the invention can be patented, not the concepts behind the invention. It's only the actual physical implementation of the concept that is patentable.

I was kind of wondering because the La Scala was published by PWK in a '65 article, but specifically not patented. Sort of unusual judging from his prior tendency to patent his other designs.

I sure would like to ask him a few things...

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Tbrennan, I didn't explain that very clearly. I'm planning to have a simple high pass filter installed at the input to the SET monoblocs. I'll have this simple circuit consisting of a cap and a resistor switchable so I can have them run full range or high pass.

John, I could use just the Khorn crossovers, but I want to cut the low frequencies out of the input to the SET amps so they are not burdened with having to amplify those frequencies. My thought is that once I've taken the low frequencies out of the signal to the speakers, then why not minimize the crossover at the speaker to have the fewest components possible and still do the job of separating the mid and tweet.

I find myself wanting to adjust the level of bass depending on which recording I'm listening to. I have an equalizer that has a remote control that you can use to adjust the levels of each band on the fly. I love the flexibility it gives me, but it sounds like crap so it never gets used.

Greg

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D-man,

Actually, the Belle Klipsch WAS patented, but the patent was for the aesthetic treatment of the cabinet, not for the functional part of it. Same holds true for the Klipschorn "B" style cabinet.

The Klipschorn was originally able to be patented due to its using the corner of a room for the completion of its bass horn, more than any other reason.

The Jubilee has similarities in its bass bin design to the "S" horn designs used in the second version of the JBL Hartsfield...neither of them received a patent due to the "S" horn's already having a patent previously issued. BUT there may well be either a patent-pending or a patent request in the works for the Jubilee. You will normally only find ISSUED patents in a patent search.

The LaScala was not unique enough to receive a patent for its bass bin, either. The Heresy and the Cornwall neither received a patent due to previous similarly-designed speakers having already received those patents.

In order to receive a patent, the invention must be deemed unique and previously un-patented. PWK was not the first inventor to come up with "horn-folding" methods, but even so, the speakers he designed were unique in many aspects...just NOT unique enough to be able to be patented in some cases.

In one case in particular, the MWM, PWK received a patent even though similarly designed "W" horns had been previously made but had NOT received patents.

In applying for a patent, it is often not issued for various reasons...IOW, just because a patent is pending, doesn't mean it will actually be granted. The patent office researches previous patents, especially any of the previously-issued patents noted in the body of the patent pending, in order to determine if there is sufficient evidence to make the newly requested patent's invention unique enough to receive a patent on its own merits as described in the body of the pending patent. Often just a minor bit of the WORDING found in the patent's descriptive narrative is enough to keep the new patent from being granted.

In order to ensure one is granted a patent, it is best to fully research previously-issued patents on similar inventions or parts of the new invention to determine whether a patent even CAN be granted BEFORE the inventor goes to all the effort to write-up a narrative that has no hope of being issued a patent to begin with. Even if the inventor sees a good possibility that his invention CAN receive a patent, he still has to correctly word the narrative of his patent request to ensure the patent attorneys at the patent office will fully understand the uniqueness of the invention so that the patent can be issued.

Some inventors come up with patentable inventions that never see production...and just those patented "ideas" can shoot down the possibility of issuance of a patent for a later PRODUCED invention that uses a combination of previously-issued patents within its design...patents that have NEVER actually been produced at all!Therefore, many inventors never even apply for patents on some of their inventions, since they realize that the possibly of one being issued is not likely.

The other side of the coin in this is that one CAN apply for a patent, and immediately go into production of the invention...and as long as the patent is pending, they retain rights of exclusivity...until the patent is either issued or denied. If the original patent it denied, then they often have a re-written patent request waiting to immediately submit in order to continue having that exclusivity of rights to manufacture the invention while the SECOND patent is pending...etc.

Edited to paragraph format for the reading enjoyment of cut-throat, et.al. 9.gif

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John Dear, 40 watts into the bass bins matches 8-SET watts on horns? At what kind of SPL? Is that a level frequency response? Within how many dBs?

Andy, hope you are saving all this so we can write a book!

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Colin: Beats the hell outa me, but it sure sounds good. All the Spl's,frequency analysis, etc, can not take into account room acoustics, sound-deadening properties, 50-year-old ears, and so forth. I'm not an enginner, just a listener, and I have done a lot of experimenting with tubes and horns. Why in the world would you want to measure music--try a bunch of different stuff and the way that sounds best to you is the best. For instance if I had high frequency hearing loss, I might not want perfectly level frequency response---I'm not trying to impress a Stereophile critic. John

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  • 17 years later...

I have a pair of LaScalas, powered by a McIntosh MA-9500, the subwoofer is a JL Audio Fathom V-2. 
 

The system is outstanding, that said I’m wondering how much I’m missing, if I had the big Klipschorn heritage speakers. I’d welcome any and all takes on the subject.

 

Thanks, Mark.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Budman said:

you should be put in time out with that answer

well... let's see.

Heritage:

Heresy, Forte, Cornwall, Belle, La Scala, Klipschorn...

 

Yeap, confirmed... La Scala is the best

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4 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

If I had the AK6s, I might sing a different tune. But my LaScala IIs are more enjoyable to my ears than were my 1976 khorns.

 

Different animal, right? I will NEVER forget the first time I heard La Scala II's at Flanner's in the Milwaukee area. I turned to the salesperson and say "Well, Klipsch finally got these speakers right. Holy S@*t!" I've owned 4 or 5 pairs of La Scalas with various network configurations and only ever thought they sounded even remotely like any of my Klipschorns was with a pair of subs. 

 

Again, though, La Scala II's and newer? ...that's a lot of speaker without requiring corners. With a completely different crossover setup than your '76s, I too, suspect I'd like your La Scala II's better, too. Great input, Shakey, thanks for sharing this.

 

Jeff

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4 hours ago, tidmack said:

 

Different animal, right? I will NEVER forget the first time I heard La Scala II's at Flanner's in the Milwaukee area. I turned to the salesperson and say "Well, Klipsch finally got these speakers right. Holy S@*t!" I've owned 4 or 5 pairs of La Scalas with various network configurations and only ever thought they sounded even remotely like any of my Klipschorns was with a pair of subs.

 

Jeff

 

That's because we DON'T WANT them to sound like Klispchorns...

As wonderful as the Klipschorn is, it has time alignment issues and the bifurcation of the mouths only really work well when they are locked into corners... otherwise they are a detriment.

 

The Klipschorn is a wondrous engineering achievement in design and sound quality... the La Scala is better

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Having owned both it's Klipschorns all the way for me, but I have an excellent room for them.

Now that I have them time alligned and with K402s on top (and a devistator sub below) I think I have gone as far as I will with two channel.

But even without time alignment I was surprised at how much better the K-horns sounded in my room. Both the Klischorn and LaScala have compromises baked in, however the ability to fairly easily time align truly gives the K-horn the edge with far superior bass.

YMMV

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At one time I had a 28’ x 24’  room with a set of Khorns along the 28 ‘ wall , the sound was incredible. But if you don’t have an optimal room they will suffer  in their presentation to some degree. In smaller less optimal rooms I believe that the Lascala has certain advantages  ,for example the height of the squawker is better placed for closer listening ,Lascala allows for   easy toe in adjustment and easy width  adjustment . Overall the Lascala offers much more flexibility , which makes it more desirable in many cases. But is it better , to me it depends.🤓

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