mikebse2a3 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 OK I'm just going to speak my mind about what I believe to be a serious ongoing problem with the Klipsch Forum. We have seen this many times over the years where someone comes in and starts to make things personnel instead of presenting facts and data to back their position in a debate on a subject which unfortunately leads to getting sometimes very informative threads locked. Here is a recent example of what I'm talking about: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/156907-vintage-tube-amp-restoration-walk-through/ AEA Audio did nothing wrong and actually handled themselves in a manner we all should practice yet they and their thread was silenced and I believe this to be unjustifiably unfair to them..!!! IMHO those who can't control themselves and start the personal attacks of others should be locked out of the thread to discourage the bad behavior..! Locking the thread as in this case punished the innocent and rewarded the guilty and I hope most members here feel this is unfair and should not be how we moderate these situations. I'll repeat a point I made in the thread by saying it's OK to ask questions when something seems odd or counter intuitive but those questions for clarification should be asked in a respectful manner..!!! Just because something or someone is unknown or new to us does not give us the right to make innuendos or attack anyone and this is happening way to much on this forum IMHO. I honestly am bringing this up because it's about the Forum's future and not just one thread I believe we all loose in many ways when someone is silenced unfairly..!!! Is this forum going to become a place where you can respectively debate and even disagree and enjoy the freedom and opportunity to learn from others or are we going to continue to allow a few who cannot control themselves and go on the attack to rob us of these opportunities? miketn 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I agree, I have so much I would like to say on the matter. But I don't think The KLIPSCH FORUM is the place to say it. Klipsch has this forum to be informative to those inquiring about their product. There are some very intelligent folks on this forum that provide the data and technical information that people are needing. Yes we take it past Klipsch product, which I don't think is minded, as long as it doesn't turn into threads that you speak of. As long as we can be civil about things, the rules can be bended. Once things get out of hand, then we need to resort back to following the rules. If that fails, then more rules are usually implemented. Which could make this a dull place, I don't want to see that happen. If Paul was around and came on the forum and started bashing people about their intelligence I don't think I would stick around. Nor do I think I would care much to continue to purchase his product. Is it entertaining? Sure, is it Right? Not here, I believe there are other forums it could be taken to. Just my 2 cents. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I agree Mike and I too was sorry to see the thread locked. Not much of a reception for AEA Audio. Some of us were enjoying their walk through and appreciated the time they took to post and document their experiences. I hope we haven't run them off permanently. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steven1963 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I skimmed the topic and I thought there was value in it. It's unfortunate that the thread was locked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted May 2, 2015 Klipsch Employees Share Posted May 2, 2015 I suggest that you let chief bonehead clear the forum of the boneheads. You know who you are..... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I'll double check, but I don't believe the functionality exists to block posters from individual threads, hence the total lock. I'll unlock the thread as long as it stays on-topic and free from personal attacks, off-forum grievances, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I also agree with Mike. I understand the need to lock the thread because of the poor behavior. However, I do not understand the need for the poor behavior. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 I'll double check, but I don't believe the functionality exists to block posters from individual threads, hence the total lock. I'll unlock the thread as long as it stays on-topic and free from personal attacks, off-forum grievances, etc. Then maybe the individual posters need a time out from the forums until behavior is improved...? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckAb3 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 There have been a number of threads in which I wanted to participate but did not because of the nasty level of personal comments made by a few members. I won't subject myself to that kind of B.S. If an individual can't be locked from that kind of thread, the mods don't have much choice but to lock the thread itself .....that is if this is to remain a civilized forum. Darn shame that a few can't or won't tolerate differing opinions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Points system Give them 99% points so that one more point..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I'll double check, but I don't believe the functionality exists to block posters from individual threads, hence the total lock. I'll unlock the thread as long as it stays on-topic and free from personal attacks, off-forum grievances, etc. Then maybe the individual posters need a time out from the forums until behavior is improved...? Interesting, because this may be an aspect that the new moderators may not have fully anticipated in their "new roles" where they are now not necessarily part of the regular "lunch group" at work that meets every day and cannot necessarily partake in all of the same rituals. Basically the "social dynamic" has changed whether they realize that or not and with that change there will be personal bias and preference that may need to be recognized and set aside on their part. In some respects by many looking in, they, while not being Klipsch employees, are now representatives of the Klipsch forums and their actions will be subject to various interpretations by more than their individual friend groups on the forum. The thread locks or delete have worked well in relation to those spam posters that have the same link in all forums and have no real interaction on the forum. There is not necessarily a "face" or "personality" attached to the spam post and if they come back it most likely happens under a different user name. In relation to the topic of this thread, of course, the easy decision it to lock the thread, not take a controversial stance among those that know them and move on hoping that their friendships are unharmed, but how do you quantify the harm from a "bigger picture" view that may have been done in respect to all members and all outside readers that form impressions of Klipsch in general and the individuals specifically? What is the reflection of Klipsch as a company in this instance? For example, after re-reading that thread, the thread starter responded in one of the most professional ways that I have witnessed on the forum and I could not find where the thread starter exhibited a hint of personal attack in return. There was also a garage sale thread that was locked ~ a couple of weeks ago that was started by the thread starter with an indication by the moderator locking the thread that no dealers were allowed. However, I have not been able to find a dealer affiliation on the website and it looks to be an internet operation not really very different than the operations involved on the forum now. There are a lot of readers on the forum and what is the general message being sent? I don't know for sure and cannot speak for everyone, but in my experience, I suspect that there will be a wide range of interpretations and impressions being formed and not all of them will be favorable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 There are a lot of readers on the forum and what is the general message being sent? I don't know for sure and cannot speak for everyone, but in my experience, I suspect that there will be a wide range of interpretations and impressions being formed and not all of them will be favorable. It's not different than a municipal police force. You'll have some good cops and bad cops. The cops are going to upset some people from time to time. Cops are people, too. They are given discretion, and when exercising discretion, are not going to exercise it in the same way as all the other cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 There are a lot of readers on the forum and what is the general message being sent? I don't know for sure and cannot speak for everyone, but in my experience, I suspect that there will be a wide range of interpretations and impressions being formed and not all of them will be favorable. It's not different than a municipal police force. You'll have some good cops and bad cops. The cops are going to upset some people from time to time. Cops are people, too. They are given discretion, and when exercising discretion, are not going to exercise it in the same way as all the other cops. I believe that you may not have taken the time to read the thread in question, read my entire post, and ultimately not understand the nuance of my post. If you have, my apologies for my errant assumption. However, your analogy of "bad cop" contains no definition of "bad." For example, with all of the current press coverage, I sure would hope you are NOT implying our moderators are corrupt. That is NOT the point I was making. Now if you are suggesting that "bad cop" in your analogy means that the new moderators may not have the depth of experience and training like Amy Unger had to separate some of their own personal bias in the decision making process, you may be getting closer to the nuance I was getting at. My evaluation indicated that the "social dynamic" on the forum does change when you were a member and are now a moderator. Sometimes it may involve taking a more direct stance to the specific offence in a thread rather than generically lock a thread and punish those of us that are not part of the transgression and were able to glean relevant information from the thread in relation to the topic under discussion. I'm just thinking that maybe each of us has a point in the process where a moderator holding a finger over the lock button should stop and ask themself again, "am I locking this for the benefit of the forum or should I take a more specific stance in relation to the specific transgression since I have now inserted myself in the issue?" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted May 2, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 2, 2015 There are a lot of readers on the forum and what is the general message being sent? I don't know for sure and cannot speak for everyone, but in my experience, I suspect that there will be a wide range of interpretations and impressions being formed and not all of them will be favorable. It's not different than a municipal police force. You'll have some good cops and bad cops. The cops are going to upset some people from time to time. Cops are people, too. They are given discretion, and when exercising discretion, are not going to exercise it in the same way as all the other cops. As a general rule, the moderators will consult with each other prior to locking a thread such as the one you are referring to in the original post. The wide range of interpretations and impressions are exactly why we consult with each other. What I may consider to be offensive or an attack, one of the other moderators may see differently. We do our best. There is no way to "lock" one person out of a thread. I think utilizing the point system may be the best way to approach this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Then maybe the individual posters need a time out from the forums until behavior is improved...? Its not like this is the first time either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Three rules to keeping an orderly discussion forum: 1. No politics or religion 2. No profanity 3. Be polite 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 LOL, I tell yea, you gotta keep a close eye on ole Marty....... he's always been a vicious sort, and is well known for his word spinning and caca ball throwing techniques. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) Its not like this is the first time either. What's that? You mean this has happened before? Edited May 2, 2015 by Gilbert 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I feel partially responsible for what happened with that thread. The tenor of my original post was far too strident and should have been more nuanced. While most of questions on this company's work were the voicing of honest concerns, the overall tenor was more of an attack rather than an inquiry. For that I apologize to all who may have been offended, for in that regard they are completly right. I think that those who has seen my posts here over the years know that despite occasional lapses, I have tried to make people welcome, encourage their participation and promote this place as a fun and interesting venue for the discussion of audio. Please understand that I have several reservations about this company relating to their work and their blatant self-promotion with this post which IMO is contrary to forum rules. In my opinion they are here soley seeking business and I have concerns about the quality of the materials and certain aspect of their modifications. I intend to explore those issues further in the re-opened thread, in a more restrained and civil manner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Three rules to keeping an orderly discussion forum: 1. No politics or religion 2. No profanity 3. Be polite Regarding Point Number 2: Bullshit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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