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Flat from 12HZ to? Something else used to be flat too.

JJK

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3 hours ago, JJkizak said:

Flat from 12HZ to? Something else used to be flat too.

JJK

  

80,000 hZ.  was the published spec.  The top most driver was ingenious, only the dust cap radiating through a baffle, of a  single 2 1/4 inch Peerless alnico tweeter, crossed over really high. 

 

Mr. Fulton, prior to shipping each pair, Q.C measured the speakers' responses, typically  out to as much as 110 khZ.  on the later Premiere models, , maybe P-7 to P-12 models. 

 

I owned P-10s back in the day.  If you think I am pulling your leg my friends, I guarantee you.............. I am not !!   I know two key ex-factory employees, still very much alive, who have built these, who would vouch for all I describe herein .  

 

Live and learn .  Audio, and the paths we all take,  is so much fun.  Discovery.   " I was blind, but now I see ".

 

Jeffrey Medwin

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  A friend had a giant pair of Fulton’s 25 years ago. Looked like armoires. He never hooked them up when I was around. He used some Linn Isobaric speakers mostly.

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HERE WE GO !!!   A recently written HISTORY of cables for audio, from Absolute Sound, by Dick Olsher.  VERY well written . 

 

You will see references to Bob Fulton's contributions, and to Siltech wire, Cardas wire, which I had already brought up in this thread.  Its very nicely done !!!   I hope you all enjoy learning this audio HISTORY .

 

                                              (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-short-history-of-high-end-cables/)

 

Jefrey Medwin

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

 80,000 hZ.  was the published spec.  The top most driver was ingenious, only the dust cap radiating through a baffle, of a  single 2 1/4 inch Peerless alnico tweeter, crossed over really high. 

 

Mr. Fulton, prior to shipping each pair, Q.C measured the speakers' responses, typically  out to as much as 110 khZ.  on the later Premiere models, , maybe P-7 to P-12 models. 

 

I owned P-10s back in the day.  If you think I am pulling your leg my friends, I guarantee you.............. I am not !!  

Jeffrey Medwin

 

The charitable view would be that it is your leg that has been pulled.  If not, then questions certainly arise about the credentials of those who have told you some of these things.

Edited by Backfire

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41 minutes ago, Backfire said:

 

The charitable view would be that it is your leg that has been pulled.  If not, then questions certainly arise about the credentials of those who have told you some of these things.

 

 

That is rather insulting wording to me - on your part !!

 

Credentials ??   What precisely are your credentials to comment and critique??   

 

Mr. Fulton was one of the most brilliant people in audio I have ever met in all my life, and I have met quite a few !! 

 

Did you not read his biography, or understand what his contributions to audio was, say, versus yours - what will your audio legacy be  ??

 

Here you are again , easily understood :   

 

                                                                                          http://fultonmusicalindustries.com/biography.html

 

 

 

 

Jeffrey Medwin

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9 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

That is rather insulting on your part !!

 

Jeffrey Medwin

 

I was actually trying to be non-insulting, and give the chap the benefit of the doubt, by supposing that he might have been having a little innocent joke at your expense. If he really was making some universal assertion that wires needed to be 57 1/8 in length for optimal audio performance then indeed I would question his credentials. Anyone with a modicum of common sense and an understanding of basic physical principles would question them.

 

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21 minutes ago, Backfire said:

 

I was actually trying to be non-insulting, and give the chap the benefit of the doubt, by supposing that he might have been having a little innocent joke at your expense. If he really was making some universal assertion that wires needed to be 57 1/8 in length for optimal audio performance then indeed I would question his credentials. Anyone with a modicum of common sense and an understanding of basic physical principles would question them.

 

 

 

Possibly before your time, Mr. Fulton offered a whole line of cables for audio:

 

Interconnects were typically one ( 57 1/8th inch length ) but a larger-multiple interconnect also was available to the public

 

Speaker leads, as Dick Olsher pointed out, were either Fulton Brown Wire or Fulton Gold Wire

 

Both wire types were offered regularly to the public , from my memory, in these lengths :

 

57 1/8th ( one length)

 

14 1/4 feet 

 

28 1/2 feet

 

and 57 1/8th feet. 

 

Do you believe me now, or should I dig out the manufacturer's Dealer Price Lists for these??

 

Again, what are your credentials, in music ( Robert was a musician ) and in audio design, / implementations,  to question his credentials.??   

 

 

Jeffrey 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

 

 

Possibly before your time, Mr. Fulton offered a whole line of cables for audio:

 

Interconnects were typically one ( 57 1/8th inch length ) but a larger-multiple interconnect also was available to the public

 

Speaker leads, as Dick Olsher pointed out, were either Fulton Brown Wire or Fulton Gold Wire

 

They were offered regularly to the public , from my memory, in these lengths :

 

57 1/8th ( one length)

 

14 1/4 feet 

 

28 1/2 feet

 

and 57 1/8th feet. 

 

Do you believe me now, or should I dig out the manufacturer's Dealer Price Lists for these??

 

Again, what are your credentials, in music ( Robert was a musician ) and in audio design, / implementations,  to question his credentials.??   

 

 

Jeffrey 

 

 

 

It depends  what, if any, accompanying explanations went along with these offerings.  One can imagine, for example, that a manufacturer might offer cables in 3ft, 6ft and 12ft lengths, but that, of itself, does not imply that the said manufacturer has some crazy idea that these are the only lengths that will provide optimal audio performance.  It could just mean that those happen to be the lengths they offer.

 

If you can provide documentation where this Fulton chap expounded on the specific superiority of these particular lengths, then that might indeed argue against the charitable interpretation that he was joking with you.  It would then tend to favour the suggestion that some of his ideas were a bit wacky.

 

By the way, that 14 1/4 ft length seems to be 3/8inch short of being a multiple of three  times the 57 1/8 inch basic unit. 

Edited by Backfire

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39 minutes ago, Backfire said:

 

It depends  what, if any, accompanying explanations went along with these offerings.  One can imagine, for example, that a manufacturer might offer cables in 3ft, 6ft and 12ft lengths, but that, of itself, does not imply that the said manufacturer has some crazy idea that these are the only lengths that will provide optimal audio performance.  It could just mean that those happen to be the lengths they offer.

 

If you can provide documentation where this Fulton chap expounded on the specific superiority of these particular lengths, then that might indeed argue against the charitable interpretation that he was joking with you.  It would then tend to favour the suggestion that some of his ideas were a bit wacky.

 

By the way, that 14 1/4 ft length seems to be 3/8inch short of being a multiple of three  times the 57 1/8 inch basic unit. 

 

I am done discussing audio with you !!    Have a nice day and a great life, going forward.

 

Best wishes, 

 

Jeffrey Medwin

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3 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

HERE WE GO !!!   A recently written HISTORY of cables for audio, from Absolute Sound, by Dick Olsher.  VERY well written . 

 

You will see references to Bob Fulton's contributions, and to Siltech wire, Cardas wire, which I had already brought up in this thread.  Its very nicely done !!!   I hope you all enjoy learning this audio HISTORY .

 

                                              (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-short-history-of-high-end-cables/)

 

Jefrey Medwin

 

Damn!  I'm convinced now...

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I just got home from a mini vacation and I have been playing my system with the western electric wires and changes made to the tophats and the change is remarkable,the soundstage is wider and the bass is the best I have had .Now to try and enjoy what I have before I start trying to find away to make it better.I think that is one of the fault many of us have with our system,we get it to sounding great and then start trying to find away to make it better and then we are back to where we were.

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On 8/9/2019 at 1:20 PM, kevinmi said:

Well, that comment did it for me. People who believe in some kind of guy in the sky will believe anything, I guess!

 

You mean....Jim Jones wasn't the messiah???  I better change my loyalty to David Koresh....  oh wait....damn, too late for that one too.

 

 

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Don't forget to cut the wires to 57.062 +-.001".

JJK

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The importance of wires and cables increases as cable length and the frequencies that the wiring carries increases. Audio frequencies are low relative to UHF, and wiring is less critical for audio, especially home audio, where loudspeakers are usually located less than 25 feet from the amplifiers that drive them. Commercial installations that may use hundreds of feet of wire are a different matter.

 

If an audio enthusiast is using inefficient loudspeakers that require a lot of power it may be important to pay attention to wire size and to the temperature rating of the wire's insulation. Otherwise, a general recommendation of 16 gage or larger is sufficient and it doesn't hurt a thing to go larger.

 

As far as uber expensive wires, I consider them to be a waste of money as I have never heard any difference between them and much less expensive wires. I would never buy any component without listening to them first. I can easily discern a difference between amplifiers, preamps, speakers, phono cartridges, CD players, and DACs but not between wires.YMMV

 

 

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The point of hearing difference in less efficient speakers seems true to me. Most of these talks comes to me from poeple with very inefficient small monitors. 

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I disagree that wires don't make a difference.   I don't disagree that people do not hear a difference - that is possible and likely.   If a person can't hear it, his system is simply middle of the road, and un-resolving in nature .    Most  systems are this way, yet the people will still be happy, enjoy the music playback, because they never experienced higher performance playback. . 

 

I use professional -use drivers -  ALTEC 515Bs and 802Ds, both  are front - horn loaded, and wired with 8 AWG and 16 AWG respectively internally.  My system is certainly  "high efficiency".  The 515B was possibly the best woofer ALTEC ever made.  ( The new GPA drivers are even better !!  )   It is a high efficiency system where one can best make such wire determinations.  Its all " more sensitive " to what you do to it.   

 

Inside an a DIY amp I am constructing, one can often hear the difference between one inch of 16 AWG versus the use of 10 AWG for that same one inch span. 

 

High efficiency speakers " demand " highly efficient ( low loss, wide band, great transfer efficiency ) wiring IF you want get the best possible fidelity out of them. 

 

Who cares about low efficiency speakers??  Not I. They are for lost audio people who don't know what end is up.  Thats why you use Klipsch speakers my friends !!  ALSO There is a huge performance difference between drivers that are rated 99 dB VS ones rated 101 dB, with the advantage to the highest efficiency drivers of any reputable manufacturer ( ALE, GPA, etc ).

 

An inch of bad wire can degrade the musical experience, is what I have many-times determined in my own listening and systems. 

 

YMMV, no doubt...how much resolution does the system you employ inherently possess???

 

Jeffrey Medwin 

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5 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

I use professional use drivers ...

 

We do too.

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