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well, as long as we're talking about sunsets

Hey everyone, thanks for those of you who gave me some info on vintage vs new La Scalas. I finally got to hear some in person yesterday. My local (ish) heritage dealer had La Scala, Forte' 4s and Heresy in stock. Wow! Those La Scalas are out of this world, in both physical and acoustic presence. I listened to some of my old favorites that I've heard 100s of times on my home system (zeppelin, beatles, jethro tull, bob dylan) and it was insane . . . you could literally hear Robert Plant like he was sitting in front of you with such detail it was almost eerie, in a good way though. After playing with the La Scalas for about 45 min I plugged in the Forte' 4s. Those honestly surprised me. While not as large and all encompassing of a sound stage as the La Scalas, they were dam good! I immediately noticed the lack of bass on La Scalas as others online have pointed out. It was weird, almost like you had the EQ for the lowest bass turned down to 1; you could hear the bass or a shadow of the deepest notes but it really doesn't come through. The Forte' 4s were another story though, they gave nice and pleasant bass and I'd say about 75% of the "presence" of the La Scalas but a bit narrower/smaller sound stage. I really liked them, and for my medium sized room they may be the ticket at 1/3 the price too. Question for those "in the know" . . . the La Scalas were positioned not in a corner but in the middle of a wall. Would this have a significant impact on their bass performance? I did notice the Forte' 4s were very position dependend but since the La Scalas are so heavy and were set up I couldn't exactly move them around in the store. I played with position a little bit with Forte' 4s (closer/further from wall and toe in / straight) that made significant differences in their sound for sure. I'm still floored by how sweet those big boys played but even though I'm not at all a "bass head", they did leave me just a little bit lacking in the low department. Any fixes for this? I know others have stiffened their cabinets and played around with ported stands on the older models, has anyone done some mods on these new ones with success? Was a fun trip yesterday. I actually didn't' even plug in the Heresy 4s since I ran out of time but wow, all these speakers look amazing and sound so sweet. Getting excited to make a decision! Thinking about another road trip to check out the Cornwalls at another dealer, very curious if those would give the bass of the Forte' 4s with the presence and sound stage of the La Scalas.

For those of you who have heard both in person, how do the La Scalas compare to the Cornwall 4s? There's another dealer about an hour away from me that may have Cornwalls on display so hopefully I can listen to those too before making a decision. The room I'm planning to put them in is 16' by 18' long so its med size. Thinking the Forte' 4s should be big enough and if I'm not happy could always trade them back and upgrade down the road. Side note: it really is crazy how nice these Kipsch speakers sound/image. I went to 3 different "hifi" dealers locally just to check out as much as I could get my ears on. The one place was a Mac dealer and had an over 1MM demo room with $250,000 wilson audio speakers and all the doo dads including a $200,000 turn table set up that weighed 800 pounds. Just crazy stuff; thought my wife was going to have a heart attack when she saw the price stickers. Now I'm sure all the high end audiophile folks would hate me but I swear, that music I heard yesterday on the La Scalas and a pretty nice music hall turntable sounded way more real and engaging than that crazy set up. I demoed about a dozen different speakers at these other hifi shops and its hard to put into words, yes they sounded amazing, they were crystal clear, but they just sounded too "neutral" , almost lifeless. So happy I decided to go for the Klipsch and just have to figure which one to pull the trigger on for now. Bear with me folks, I'm dorking out here . . .

Eight years....where does the time go? Happy birthday to all the regulars and the occasional guest who pass through looking for a light read and end of making a friend or two along the way! It has been a blast and to the extent all who visit are made to feel welcome regardless of their audio acumen then I'm pleased. Great work guys and let's go for a few more years😊

Serious bass waves seem to be keeping the critters away from my crib. [emoji106] Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

My Current Favorites but I truly love all his works..!!! 🙂 Artist: Luke Created: 2021 at age 6 years old

La Scalas are wonderful speakers. I have a pair of 1970s original La Scalas, and a pair of 2007 La Scala IIs, so you know they’re my favourite speakers, next to Jubilees, which wouldn’t quite fit into my place. However, as you noticed and accurately described, they don’t put out much in the bottom two octaves or so. There are some mods which claim to fix this, but the length of the bass horn on the Scala is what it is, and the only really effective cure is to add a subwoofer or two. Since these are premium speakers, it only makes sense to use premium subs, with fairly high power that can reach deep into the bass zone, down to below 20 Hz. Some will point out that the lowest note on a 4-string bass guitar is at 40 Hz and the lowest note on a 5-string bass is at 30 Hz, so you don’t need to go super low on the subwoofer’s rating. The reply to that is that when the sub is operating at its absolute limit, the sound will indeed be limited. If it’s down 3 dB at 30 Hz, trying to bring it up so that its response is sort of close to flat at that point will require double the amplifier power. Not an ideal situation. The sub should be operating in its linear zone, reproducing those deep bass notes with no more difficulty than the higher notes. So the sub that seems to fit the bill in your system is too expensive? You can either buy a used one, or keep adding to your stereo account for a bit longer. I’ve done both in my sub journey, and each choice seemed right for the circumstances at the time. I first got a sub that was pretty good, so the overall sound of the Scala/sub was pretty good. I was happy with that for years, but eventually I swapped out that sub for a much better one, costing around double the price of the first one. Wow! That’s what I said about that. It went way deeper, so now it was easy to hear every note in a tune equally accurately, not rolled off like it had been with the old sub. The feeling was “Now, this is the real thing! This is the ‘you are there’ effect that we’re all after.” Now, when I’m listening to some music, there’s no more feeling that this or that piece needs an upgrade, or the sound is pretty good, but... Now the sound was really good, and I was hearing notes I hadn’t been able to hear before. That was great, but my plan at the time was to get a second matching sub as soon as I could afford it. The shop gave me a good discount on that sub, and they were good enough to agree to sell me a second sub at the same price in a few months. Four months later, I went in and got the second sub, at the same good price. The shop was happy to get the business (this was in 2020), and I was happy to get a pair of these fine subwoofers. That’s not to say that if you can’t afford mighty subs at the moment that you shouldn’t bother. Get what you can when you can. Very few of us can afford to buy our dream systems all in one go. Most of us build them up a piece at a time, and the sound gets better and better, until it reaches a point where the feeling is that it’s just fine as it is, with no lust for more or better. Part of the logic was of this was to be sure that the subs should be as sharp on transients as the La Scalas, plus having the two subs means that the drivers only need to move half as far to produce the same total volume. Half the cone movement should mean around half the distortion, getting them closer to the very low distortion of the horn-loaded La Scalas. It’s been pointed out on the Forum a number of times that La Scalas plus subs equals a system that can sound better than the Klipschorns, the top of the Heritage Series. As well, they give much more flexibility in positioning. La Scalas are fine speakers that can be the heart of a great sound system, one that you can enjoy from the first day you have them, and improve pretty much as far as you want to take them, and the rest of your system.

Couldn't agree more. If not dialed in well, I'd rather listen without them.

I agree.....and I've been saying for years now that all speakers benefit from a sub that is properly integrated. Period. If it's not dialed in right, it's a mess and so many people trash the use of subwoofers for this reason. A decent sub properly integrated can sound good. A very good sub properly integrated can take your system to another level. Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

LOVE seeing Asian women in the music industry. Thanks for sharing. Tonight in listening in on this thread solely going last to first..

Nice! Yeah I'm in the same boat just ordered a second one yesterday going to bi-amp my kpt-335's. I didn't think it was really needed at first because one PA5 drives my speakers plenty loud but with two amps I can lower the gain on the upper section using the volume control on the amp to better match my woofer cabinet without using any EQ. The spec sheet says my speakers are 103db @ 1 watt but my bass cabinet is essentially a Chorus cabinet which is rated at 101db.

We audiophiles are a crazy bunch Apart from Audio and music - most collect other amazing things For me it’s fine art & photography I will slowly post all my art collection here for all to admire Hope you can join me in posting your art in your home or audio room Or art you admire or provokes a deep feeling for no apparent reason I will start with a slightly different version of a famous American painting Artist - Autumn De Forest Title - American Graphic 2012 Born 2001 so that makes her 11 when she painted this I have another 3 of her works

$3000 https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/996415467954253/?search_query=messaging_thread

One word that comes to mind as I listened. <Lush> The Sound Sommelier. A comment below the vid asks, What do you use to record your vids, the best sound on Youtube. it is pretty good.

Joe Zupko, a friend and artist, sadly departed. These two works were done using crayons and small pieces of plywood he dug out of a construction dumpster. In his later works, that's mostly the way he painted. Edit. This would make more sense if I actually posted the picture of the paintings. Sorry.

As for this.......... I somewhat agree, you can find and read, and disseminate as much information as you can get your hands on, develop a more-than-passable working knowledge of advanced mathematics, crawl down the rabbit-hole of endless forum "suggestions" until you become part of your computer chair, then order up $20K worth of resistors, caps, power transformers, chokes, output transformers, signal tubes, power tubes, rectifier tubes, vr tubes, solder, switches, tube sockets, wire, etc........... and solder together all of the circuits you've read about and see how they sound................. so about 5,000hrs and two marriages later you can be somewhat satisfied? Maybe if it were a hobby. Certainly not the suggested methodology if you've got four kids to feed. I feel eternally blessed to have the help I've been given...... and express it every chance I get. The "help" is usually in the form of not wasting precious time chasing a topology that's been tried by others and is ultimately not good enough. This kind of direction is most welcome. Bad habits..................... Hmm.... well, everyone knows that audio designers have the capacity to grow like any other human being. Changing one's perspective is part of the human condition. I welcome change................ as long as it sounds better. My recommendation for those wanting to DIY, is to find a topology that several people have used, build from a valid schematic, then rub on it till it shines. You'll learn much in the endeavor. I absolutely believe in empirical evidence to support what I'm hearing. Word of advice: buy the best iron you can afford. There is a difference. Good Luck! Matt.

How big's that checkbook? Pair of LS w/a couple subs? Nummy! The decision is yours on the Cornwall / LS. Check them both out a couple times before you buy. Throw whatever you want at them and make your decision. Take YOUR selections with you then throw something of theirs on you've never heard before on and listen. You become engrained listening to your own stuff all the time. Be objective and throw something on completely different and listen first THEN your stuff.

Pumped a whole can of expanding foam in the cavity. Moth ball smell reminded me of granny's house.

nice! cant even come close to the sound of these for that price or double! if i was closer they would be my 5th set of 5.5s. looking closer... the top woofer on the right speaker has been changed from the original, still worth 200 bucks.

More picture updates. CNC, jigs & sleds, fixtures, 100 tooth blades, and a full-time shop vac.

If you can find a well setup pair of Cornwall lV it might really be the sweet spot for you. They truly fill the gap between the Forte lV and La Scala AL5 miketn

Why would you even consider that? Barring health issues I see no reason.

Unfortunately, I have never had the pleasure to (physically) work with mentors in the tube audio field. I guess in a manner of speaking, reading countless hours of forums (with a grain of salt), books, periodicals and RDH4 (from front to back), I had mentors from afar. I am self-taught, which makes you even more focused sometimes when designing circuitry and amps.

same things apply to the 1 to 2 models, ive owned forte & F2's & there is very little difference in the sound... some actually like the forte better than the F2. same thing happened back then in the late 80s through mid 90s, people were all worked up about the 2s but the owners of original fortes didnt rush out to buy the 2s & if some did i bet they really had to reach to convince themselves the money they spent was worth it. side by side it was very hard to tell the difference between the 2, as ODS123 said, it was very subtle at best. i have not heard the forte 3 or 4 so cant really comment on them but if someone spent $3000+ for F3s & then a couple years later spent another $4000 for the 4s, did they really make a $4000 upgrade?? i would guess not. as for the upgrade kits, unless there enough profit for klipsch to do that, i doubt we will see a kit anytime soon if at all, would hurt the F4 sales too much. same with the chorus3 thing, highly doubtful since it would hurt the cornwall 4 sales too much. but one can always wish.

Too far for me. https://www.ebay.com/itm/203818648828?hash=item2f7489c4fc:g:1AMAAOSwwJ9h-wT~

Get a cat...

CNN: 6 ways to wake up without coffee. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/05/health/wake-up-without-coffee-wellness/index.html

Been saying for YEARS now, that ALL speakers need subs. Unless, of course, they have subs built into the box, like many non Klipsch Designs, except for the new Jubilee, of course.

I have some Victor Borge...

Live

The term banger is more about the relentless tempo than origin . But since you mention it I work with a Chinese gal , a Korean gal and a Filipina . The Chinese and Korean gals are very Americanized and listen to stuff like Kacey Musgraves , Phish and other such stuff . The Filipina is my music buddy and well versed in KPop ask am I . She was not very aware of the JPop and JRock scene but I have been introducing her to a lot of stuff that she is digging .

your kids are then more asian than my Chinese daughter 😜

Sunrise over Doheney and San Clemente Mountains - on fire!

No time for giving up.

Figured you would give up and make friends...

Well that’s because of the complex nature of the back air chamber. If I was going to enclose the back of an older khorn, I would probably use 3/4” and brace it. That is a tall panel…..

Since the PA5 worked so well with my system, I ended up getting a second. Now the Jubes are fully powered by the PA5s. Makes for a much more compact stack. See before/after pics below. As mentioned in a previous post, the 402s are dead quiet with the PA5 (vs the Denon AVR) and much clearer and more responsive. Powering the bass bins with the second PA5 really tightened up the base (vs. the Sherwood receiver). The fully PA5-amplified Jubes is a big step up over what I had. My complete system is a headless Intel NUC8i connected to the miniDSP 4x10HD via Toslink and then to the PA5s via balanced connections. I typically use a laptop to remote into the NUC, but sometimes an iPhone or iPad. Any device able to run Remote Desktop works for KVM. The NUC runs multiple functions: streamer (typical Amazon Music and Tidal), miniDSP controller and also hosts REW for test, analysis and correction. It’s way overkill for these functions; it’s set up as a gaming machine that I put together for analysis of 4K and 8K UHD video. Now I’m thinking “what next”? I’ve nearly completed a 16’ tapped horn for a sub, but after the improvement in the bass with the PA5, not sure how necessary it will be. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Dr. Bose created an entire business building products that people liked to hear. Not high fidelity, but pleasing to the ear.

Hello everybody! I know I know... This is very old but does anyone still have the PC software klipsch sub commander for the rt 12d or rt 10 d subs? And I also search for the infrared codes. I hope someone can help me out cause the support doesn't. Best regards, Daniel

Hi, Matt is building my 300b right now.... It will be loaded with Hitachi Fine Met OT and vintage main PS and chokes. Lots of other good stuff in there , NOS Rectifier and input tubes and new production Western Electric 300b’s Can’t wait, will post pics and impressions soon

Two subs with LS II here. I think it’s a great combination.

For the handy man , Best Offer on Ebay , Pro kp-262 -- made between 2000 and 2004 -- bigger than Heresy Pro Speakers - K-42-kp 12 inch woofer / 2 inch compression driver , the cabinets are Birch Ply , fully braced with wood cleats and steel braces -

Keep on saying it. Thinking subs will catch on one day.

A pic of the Lascalas and the braces. What an incredibly fun pair of speakers.

I don't think you necessarily "make up random crap just to sell stuff." You seem like a reasonable and likable dude.. ..But I do think you are subject to biases which predispose you to hear differences whether or not they truly exist. ..And if those difference do exist, to exaggerate them. This is not meant to impugn your character - biases are a fact of life in audio. ..Yet audiophiles generally do pretty much nothing to eliminate or even minimize them when comparing X to Y. BTW, you're talking about Fortes, and I'm talking about Cornwalls. But the point remains as the same was said about the CW3 vs W4's. ..That the CW4's (paraphrasing) are leaps and bounds better - unmistakably so. ..Yet to my ears, which measure very well and have been honed by a lifelong obsession with music, the differences are rather subtle and not necessarily better (ie. closer to real music) in the case of the CW4. Again, I'm just urging people to not be overly swayed by the gushing endorsements the next generation of a speaker gets. ..Such raving is predictable and generally exaggerated for a whole host of reasons.

That looks much better too! Nice wood in foreground also.

Fake news. Don't believe everything you see online https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/mitch-albom/2022/02/04/mitch-albom-jim-harbaugh-michigan-football-nfl-minnesota-vikings/6645110001/

I tried 6db on the mid and it was too much for me in this little office. I then switched to 7db attenuation and bingo. Think i nailed it. Man, these Cornscala's are really shining now. I believe thats the best i'm gonna get. This 7db setting sets the mid horn 5db hotter than the woofer. You mentioned in an old post that 5db hotter may be the answer and you were correct Geoff. I'm listening at 75-80db and i'm really liking this. I do have the Dia. The main in and Biamp in are labeled backwards just to let you know.